Swapped in HKS cams, now no compression / Cooling issue [BOTH RESOLVED]

[GSTwithPSI]

Thanks for the link, G. I'm thinking about picking that up just to try it.

Mark, in regard to timing being pulled, I found some good info on the ECMlink forums. This was posted in reference to a 2G, but I can't find anything that suggests there's any difference between cars. I thought this information may be helpful to others:

Enter ECU Learn Mode :: 170°F (77°C)
Coolant Fan ON :: 200°F (93C)
Pull 1 degree timing :: 206°F (97°C)
Pull 2 degree timing :: 224°F (107°C)
Enter Open Loop Mode :: 228°F (109°C) ***(2G only)
Default Coolant CEL :: 235°F (113°C)
A/C Override :: 240°F (115°C)

I also found the 1G intake air temp ignition advance adjustment:

185F = -3°
132F = -1°
100F = 0
73F = 0
48F = 0
20F = -1°
-23F = -2°

I'm going to do some more driving around and testing today. I should have some logs for you guys to look at later tonight.

 

[turbowop]

Nice. That "coolant fan on" is a 2g thing only as well though, since our fans are controlled by the switch at the bottom of the radiator which is set for 185F. In my experience, the fan usually comes on at around 203F. Close enough. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Well, I finally feel like I got some good seat time in the car. I drove it for about 3 hours under various conditions. It's about 75°F out today with clear skies. The car would run consistently at about 203° cruising on the highway at 65-70mph. Cruising from 35-50mph the temp would drop down a bit, and range from 196-200°F. At idle, I would also see 196-200°F. Although I still think my cruise temp is a bit high, I'm really satisfied with how the car is running. The big thing for me is at least it is consistent now. I think I may try to build some ducting around the intercooler, and see if that helps any. I will also look into upgrading to the Evo 3 radiator when money permits. For now, I think I'm just going to monitor the temps and make sure they stay consistent with what I've been seeing. If they do, I don't think I'm going to worry about cooling issues anymore.

I got the car idling much better as well. I'm still struggling a bit with the AirflowPerRev, which seems to want to stay at .28-.30. I adjusted my MAFComp values so that combined fuel trim was cycling slightly above and below 0. If I adjusted the sliders to get AirflowPerRev at .25 like it should be, my combined fuel trim values would jump up positive to about 12-14%. So, I figured the combined fuel trim values would take priority over the AirflowPerRev, and I adjusted the sliders accordingly. My O2 still doesn't have a pretty cycle at idle (~900rpm) , so I'm wondering if this has to do with the HKS cams. No matter what I did, nothing seemed to make my O2 sweep back and forth smooth.

I think I solved my stall as well. I think the issue was that my BISS was adjusted too far in (closed, not bypassing enough air). As a result, my ISC was maxed out at 120, and couldn't compensate for the throttle snapping shut. I got the BISS adjusted so the car can easily recover from a good throttle blip. I haven't driven it to street test it yet, but it seems like the ISC is doing its job now. That being said, the ISC never wants to settle at 30. I'll get the adjustment close, but 2 minutes later it is off again. I think I may need to pull the FIAV and block it. I'm not really sure where I'm getting variation from, but it's slightly present, and keeping me from getting a dead nuts adjustment. I adjusted the ISC closer to zero, since my priority here is keeping the car from stalling when coming to a stop.

I'm sure most of you guys know this, but I'll post it up since I wasn't able to readily find it.

An ISC value of 0 indicates the ISC is fully closed.
An ISC value of 120 indicates the ISC is fully open.

By turning the BISS in (clockwise), that should effectively raise the ISC value.
By turning the BISS out (counter-clockwise), that should lower the ISC value.

If your car is stalling at stops like mine, you probably need check your BISS setting.

For the ECMlnk guys, I have an idle log here you can take a look at. Let me know if anything looks way jacked up.
ECMlink Idle Log

Mods that may pertain to the log:
-Base fuel pressure set to 37-38psi
-Stock 450cc injectors
-Stock GVR4 MAF
-2.0 block bored .20 over with 8.3:1 pistons
-Magnus SMIM
-OEM throttle body, still has FIAV.

Overall, the car is running outstanding. No leaks anywhere. Also, the squeaky TOB seems to have disappeared. I love when sh*t fixes itself.

 

[coyotes]

Good to hear things are coming along, Brett. my TOB squeak comes and goes. I'm about to park my truck in the backyard (a bitch) so that is when I am guessing some new problems will come up with the VR4. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

 

[strokin4dr]

I forgot about the FIAV. Deleting it is usually the first thing I do when I get a mitsu.
Definitely block it off and you'll have a much easier time getting the idle and ISC settings where you want them.

I blocked mine off internally. I then had the coolant tubes machined off and installed a small freeze plug to give it a more finished look. Turned out pretty well.
I'll post a pic when I can find it.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

I've been driving the car back and forth to work this week. The weather has been pretty nice, so I figure this was a good opportunity to put some more break-in miles on the motor.

Yesterday, the car ran great, no issues whatsoever. Today it was warmer (85 or so), it ran just as good, but I got stuck in some stop and go traffic and the car started to run a little warm. It bumped up to around 220, which I didn't really like. As soon as I got moving again though, the temp dropped right away.

I think I've narrowed my issues down to 2 major things.
-I'm not getting enough airflow unless the car is at speed (40+ mph)
-My engine bay is suffering horribly from heat soak. The majority of which is coming from my FP manifold.

What reinforces my suspicions of the issues outlined above, is the car will idle perfectly at 196 if I leave the hood open while it's running. The fan cycles on and off and doesn't even run the whole time. I feel like the fan is definitely moving enough air, it just can't move it out of the hot engine bay well enough at a stop with the hood closed.

I'm considering a few options, so tell me what you guys think:
-Removing the top hood seal to try and improve airflow under the hood
-Removing the FP mani and swapping in an Evo 3 with heat shield (heat shielding the FP mani won't work with my J-pipe)
-Getting a manifold blanket for the FP mani

I feel like this issue is so stupid, but I can't quite remedy it. I wish I had the cash to drop on a big radiator, but I just don't at the moment. Any suggestions would be awesome. Thanks.

 

[coyotes]

I wonder why it's running so hot. Did you open your hood vents? You have good water movement in the radiator with the thermostat open and the cap off? Is the car running lean?

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Yeah, hood vents are open.

 

[turbowop]

I don't run the front underhood seal. Just make sure you keep the back one on. Otherwise you'll be pulling engine bay fumes in through the interior vents, which you don't want.

I would try a blanket on the manifold first. Or even couple it with a shield. Is it not possible to fit a shield even if you modify it? I wonder if mine is gonna fit? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif

 

[GSTwithPSI]

I would have to modify my J-pipe to fit a heat shield. I guess I could see if I could fab up a shield that works with the J-pipe. Maybe I'll toy around with that this weekend. The clearance is super tight, which is why I wrapped the J-pipe in the first place. I think your setup would be fine, though.

 

[cheekychimp]

Not trying to be a dick ... seriously, but if the problem is actually heatsoak caused by the hot air not leaving the engine bay, is the heatshield actually going to help? I can see that ceramic coating or a blanket actually keeping the heat from escaping in the first place would make a difference but isn't the heatshield only going to redirect it? I can see that keeping heat off the j-pipe might be advantageous though. I am really interested to see actually. I have been thinking of trying an FP manifold but I was dissuaded because of all the heat issues (especially over here where it gets so hot). It would be good to see if a good heat shield does solve the issue.

 

[467]

Couple inexpensive things you might try to see if it reduces your heatsoak. Run without that bling grill with the fogs, just to see if there is a difference. Run without that nice shiny tray under your hood vents. It could be reflecting a lot of exhaust manifold heat back down onto your engine.

 

[cheekychimp]

Pictures of shiny tray under the vents?

I looked on his member's showcase thread and on the other pages in this one and I can't see any.

 

[prove_it]

More efficient radiator will make a bigger difference. I'm telling you, go find a KOYO Evo 3 radiator. It solved my traffic heat soak issues and I was in the same boat. The core is close around 1/2"-1" thicker. You'll need a slim fan.

 

[G]

Quoting cheekychimp:
Not trying to be a dick ... seriously, but if the problem is actually heatsoak caused by the hot air not leaving the engine bay, is the heatshield actually going to help? I can see that ceramic coating or a blanket actually keeping the heat from escaping in the first place would make a difference but isn't the heatshield only going to redirect it? I can see that keeping heat off the j-pipe might be advantageous though. I am really interested to see actually. I have been thinking of trying an FP manifold but I was dissuaded because of all the heat issues (especially over here where it gets so hot). It would be good to see if a good heat shield does solve the issue.



Cheeky, their are no heat issues with the fp manifold. No more than the stock manifold. The issues are with newbs who don't plan for the heat and how to control it until after the fact.

 

[467]

click


Quoting cheekychimp:
Pictures of shiny tray under the vents?

I looked on his member's showcase thread and on the other pages in this one and I can't see any.

 

[coyotes]

Quoting G:
Quoting cheekychimp:
The issues are with newbs who don't plan for the heat and how to control it until after the fact.



Is brett a newb? To me it seems like he's done close to everything imaginable already. His setup isn't much different than mine but he has hood vents... it's a bizarre situation. I don't think heat soak from no heat shield on his manifold is going to drive up his water temps. How many people run no heat shield and have no cooling issue?

 

[Kibby]

Im running oem rad and fan. I go on ocassional sprints redlining the gears and it never goes past just below halfway also have a fmic so idk

 

[G]

Coyotes, i'm not saying anyone in particular is a newb. But it's a constant issue (heat management) here that continually comes up after the fact. Whether it's a simple ex mani replacement or a complete engine rebuild. Furthermore pointing out to cheeky it's not a problem with fp manifolds.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Here's the deal, I'm just not getting enough airflow through the engine bay. Period. In addition, my current setup (largely the FP manifold) is causing some heat soak issues, which amplifies the heat in the stagnant engine compartment. I confirmed this today beyond certainty IMO.

I drove the car to work again today. The trip there was fine. No traffic, just a nice cruise all the way. The car ran great at around 200 the entire way.

5 min after I left work, I got stuck in stop and go traffic for almost 20 min. Since the car was still nice and cool, it ran cool the whole time, and never got hot. After 20 min the traffic clears, and I get up to cruising speed (65-70mph).

Fast forward to me being about half way home. At this point, I have been driving at 65-70mph for almost 20 min (40 min total drive time at this point). The car is running nice and cool at speed, but is also nice and warm under the hood at this point. I come to another section of road where traffic is backing up. I get stuck in stop and go again, and slowly the temp starts to creep up (around 220ish). As soon as the car starts moving at a decent speed again (40+mph) the temp immediately drops. Rinse and repeat.

So, I get home and pull the car into the driveway. It's sitting at about 203 as I pull in. I decided to hop out of the car and just let it idle in the driveway while I watched it. I took about 15 min, but eventually the temp started to creep back up, settling at around 220. After I saw the car get hot, I popped the hood and just left it open while the car idled some more. After about 5 min at idle with the hood open and the fan on, the temp dropped all the way back down to 203. Problem solved. I'll just throw the hood in the trash.

G, I'm not sure how much experience you have with the FP manifold, but it presents a unique set of issues. Saying that it doesn't is just completely wrong. The manifold is larger, and emits more heat into the radiator area due to how it is positioned. I'm not the only one on the planet who has had issues like this with the FP manifold, which makes me believe this isn't just an isolated issue newbs experience as a result of poor planning. Furthermore, there are also fewer options the heat shield it, especially dependending on your charge pipe setup.

I did a lot of upgrades in a single swoop, and it's pretty hard to know exactly how the car will perform until you get it out on the road. Maybe you have some advice you'd like to give here for all the noobs? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Sure, plenty of people run the FP mani just fine, but they don't have my car. I set my car up the way it is on purpose for various reasons (preference, budget, goals, etc), and realize that if I want to keep things like they currently are, then I'll need to make the upgrades necessary to support my goals. I do my best to identify issues as they come up, and implement solutions to those as time and money allow.