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Install 264's, new lifters - can not get car to idle
- Thread starter sleepyvr4
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brisvr4
Well-known member
Did you bleed the lifters down before you installed them?
Run a comp test to make sure everything is ok inside the motor?
Run a comp test to make sure everything is ok inside the motor?
004tsi
Well-known member
Quoting turbowop:
Your arrogance towards those trying to help is ironic considering you can't figure out what's wrong with your car.
why don't ya let Curt Brown fix it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif
Your arrogance towards those trying to help is ironic considering you can't figure out what's wrong with your car.
why don't ya let Curt Brown fix it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif
Sounds like your ignition timing is a little retarted, just advance the CAS a bit and see if that helps. Its a 2 min job and let us know what happens when you try and start it. All cams aren't degree'ed the same meaning that when they grind the slot in the cam for the CAS to line up they might have ground it a couple of degree's off and your ignition timing could be a couple of degree's retarded.
So please do what everyone is telling you to do and PLEASE check your ignition timing.
So please do what everyone is telling you to do and PLEASE check your ignition timing.
turbowop
Well-known member
Quoting H05TYL:
without the reference mark on the cover I don't see how you can set the ignition timing correctly...
I was wondering this as well, since the reference marks are on the cover.
without the reference mark on the cover I don't see how you can set the ignition timing correctly...
I was wondering this as well, since the reference marks are on the cover.
atc250r
Staff member
That was my point. Even if you remove the old cams and install the new ones without removing the CAS who's to say that the CAS slot in the new cam is exactly where it was in the old one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
John
John
I know John, I was just trying to put it into terms he would understand.
Excellent thread. Will read again.
appreciate the kind words guys - I know I've been a bitch about this. It's not rocket science - I simply keep beating my head off the wall with this and the redundant responses here are as frustrating as the problem itself.
I am not the only person working on this car. Joe Shuler of Slowboy Racing and Pat Donaldson (see #2 fastest 16g 1/4 mile time) have been working on this with me. We've been f***ing with dsm's for over 8 years now. It's usually the 3 of us bumping heads however - and I tend to seek this site for "good/sound advice"
I don't know everything, or very much for that matter - try to understand that and I'll settle down.
Checking the timing w/o a cover is simple. Cam gear timing marks level with the head and the crank timing gear lined up. Pretty simple. Turn it over 6 times, all marks line up. Timing is on. CAS is centered. Keydiver chip set to 1000 rpm idle. Never seen a car that wouldn't hold an idle before, and the only thing I can point to is the cams as far as the culprit. Nothing else changed. Didn't have to do anything to lifters - they are brand new 3g style and the car fired right up w/ perfect compression.
I am not the only person working on this car. Joe Shuler of Slowboy Racing and Pat Donaldson (see #2 fastest 16g 1/4 mile time) have been working on this with me. We've been f***ing with dsm's for over 8 years now. It's usually the 3 of us bumping heads however - and I tend to seek this site for "good/sound advice"
I don't know everything, or very much for that matter - try to understand that and I'll settle down.
Checking the timing w/o a cover is simple. Cam gear timing marks level with the head and the crank timing gear lined up. Pretty simple. Turn it over 6 times, all marks line up. Timing is on. CAS is centered. Keydiver chip set to 1000 rpm idle. Never seen a car that wouldn't hold an idle before, and the only thing I can point to is the cams as far as the culprit. Nothing else changed. Didn't have to do anything to lifters - they are brand new 3g style and the car fired right up w/ perfect compression.
Romanova
Well-known member
Kill it with fire?
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CarRacer
Well-known member
Quoting BOOSTIN HARD:
I know John, I was just trying to put it into terms he would understand.
Your efforts were wasted sadly. Thanks for trying, you went the extra mile to say the least.
I know John, I was just trying to put it into terms he would understand.
Your efforts were wasted sadly. Thanks for trying, you went the extra mile to say the least.
381gvr4
Well-known member
This is what makes this forum so great. Everyone is still overly nice and wants to help others...... Don't have much forum experience altogether but I know this is a daily event on the local site!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
jepherz
Staff member
When turbowop said he doesn't know how you set timing without the cover, I think he meant the adjustable timing. And the timing belt cover.
Edit: I just saw some posts above clearly explaining the difference between the two. I'd re-read those and try messing with the CAS like Chris suggested.
Edit: I just saw some posts above clearly explaining the difference between the two. I'd re-read those and try messing with the CAS like Chris suggested.
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atc250r
Staff member
Quoting sleepyvr4:
Checking the timing w/o a cover is simple. Cam gear timing marks level with the head and the crank timing gear lined up. Pretty simple. Turn it over 6 times, all marks line up. Timing is on. CAS is centered.
That is checking the cam timing. You cannot check the ignition timing without having the lower portion of the timing cover on. Just putting the CAS in the center and saying "its good" is absolutely, positively not the way to set ignition timing. Until you set the base timing with a light you are just shooting in the dark.
John
Checking the timing w/o a cover is simple. Cam gear timing marks level with the head and the crank timing gear lined up. Pretty simple. Turn it over 6 times, all marks line up. Timing is on. CAS is centered.
That is checking the cam timing. You cannot check the ignition timing without having the lower portion of the timing cover on. Just putting the CAS in the center and saying "its good" is absolutely, positively not the way to set ignition timing. Until you set the base timing with a light you are just shooting in the dark.
John
grocery_getter
Well-known member
Quoting sleepyvr4:
Checking the timing w/o a cover is simple. Cam gear timing marks level with the head and the crank timing gear lined up. Pretty simple. Turn it over 6 times, all marks line up. Timing is on. CAS is centered. Keydiver chip set to 1000 rpm idle. Never seen a car that wouldn't hold an idle before, and the only thing I can point to is the cams as far as the culprit. Nothing else changed. Didn't have to do anything to lifters - they are brand new 3g style and the car fired right up w/ perfect compression.
What do you mean "CAS is centered."? You don't just simply "centered" the CAS. You have to use a timing light to put CAS at 5deg BTDC. Which is the OEM base timing. If you need to afterwards you can always go more advanced or more retarded but you have to start at a known point. Have you done that? I have been f***ing around with DSM since 1996 so I am not spring chicken either. Check your CAS, put it on 5 deg BTDC to start with. You'll need your bottom plastic cover with the timing mark for that.
Checking the timing w/o a cover is simple. Cam gear timing marks level with the head and the crank timing gear lined up. Pretty simple. Turn it over 6 times, all marks line up. Timing is on. CAS is centered. Keydiver chip set to 1000 rpm idle. Never seen a car that wouldn't hold an idle before, and the only thing I can point to is the cams as far as the culprit. Nothing else changed. Didn't have to do anything to lifters - they are brand new 3g style and the car fired right up w/ perfect compression.
What do you mean "CAS is centered."? You don't just simply "centered" the CAS. You have to use a timing light to put CAS at 5deg BTDC. Which is the OEM base timing. If you need to afterwards you can always go more advanced or more retarded but you have to start at a known point. Have you done that? I have been f***ing around with DSM since 1996 so I am not spring chicken either. Check your CAS, put it on 5 deg BTDC to start with. You'll need your bottom plastic cover with the timing mark for that.
grocery_getter
Well-known member
CarRacer
Well-known member
I guess this really is a testament to Mitsubishi engineering, or the quality of the oem camshafts at least, if just putting the CAS in the center of its adjustment has gotten him this far without causing any serious issues.
Ok....this is for not the faint of heart.
CAR IS TIMED. You DONT "need" a timing cover unless you want to trap a gerbil in there. CAS was on the car when engine timing was set, so its fine. No need for timing light, its not a big block. Car is automatically set at 5* JUST by simply setting engine timing right. Base idle timing is always at or around 10 degrees.
Nothing that is being brought up is the problem at all i promise. Cross my heart and hope to die (not kidding with the demons plaguing this car.)
CAR IS TIMED. You DONT "need" a timing cover unless you want to trap a gerbil in there. CAS was on the car when engine timing was set, so its fine. No need for timing light, its not a big block. Car is automatically set at 5* JUST by simply setting engine timing right. Base idle timing is always at or around 10 degrees.
Nothing that is being brought up is the problem at all i promise. Cross my heart and hope to die (not kidding with the demons plaguing this car.)
Everything that has been mentioned (legit possibilities) have been quadruple checked. No need to get in a tiffy over a simple question.
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