TURBO OPINION?

[Dialcaliper]

The thing that will be most likely to bug you is first gear from standing start up until first boost. Without a launch, your car will roll off the line competitively with a Ford Festiva.

Keep in mind that with stock tires and a turbo that doesn't spool until 4000 RPM, you'll have to get up to 20 mph before you even get into boost. With cams like 280's that will barely idle you're basically running on maybe 30-40 hp until then, which is barely enough to run the accessories and air conditioning (hope you've removed it), much less get the car moving. With larger tires or taller gears, it will be even higher. The car will basically be a chore to get out of your driveway.

In order to accelerate cruising in second gear, you must be going ~35 mph, or else you will need to downshift into first.

Once you're into the turbo, it doesn't really matter, but downshifting into first from second is inconvenient, and you can't downshift from first

 

yeah i havnt installed that 1/2 gear yet...lol. i went off of BC's website when i decided on these 280's with having a built head and all. ill see how bad it is with the cams before i decide what turbo/inj. setup im going to go with. thanks again for everyones help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif

 

[Lonewolf64]

Quoting Dialcaliper:
The thing that will be most likely to bug you is first gear from standing start up until first boost. Without a launch, your car will roll off the line competitively with a Ford Festiva.

Keep in mind that with stock tires and a turbo that doesn't spool until 4000 RPM, you'll have to get up to 20 mph before you even get into boost. With cams like 280's that will barely idle you're basically running on maybe 30-40 hp until then, which is barely enough to run the accessories and air conditioning (hope you've removed it), much less get the car moving. With larger tires or taller gears, it will be even higher. The car will basically be a chore to get out of your driveway.

In order to accelerate cruising in second gear, you must be going ~35 mph, or else you will need to downshift into first.

Once you're into the turbo, it doesn't really matter, but downshifting into first from second is inconvenient, and you can't downshift from first



This is the exact reason that I had no love for my brother's FP red setup when I drove it. Around town it is absolutely a pain to drive getting out of the hole and even that stock civic will get the jump on you unless you don't shift until 6,000rpm (to stay in the powerband yo). I mean, if you want to go fast in it, you have to plan 30 seconds or more ahead. With an evo3 setup, you can be going fast within ~2 seconds of deciding to no matter what gear/rpm you are at.

 

[Brianawd]

30r.

 

[85tr]

i just got done welding up a fully divided manifold for a holset 35 i bought , from the research ive done it sounds like a very cheap alternative to a 30r. Ill be sure to posthow it works once the cars back up.

 

yeah id like to hear how it works out for you...

 

Quoting atc250r:
A bolt on 50 trim would probably put you right where you want to be assuming you've got all the supporting mods.

John

 

[atc250r]

An E316G is a great little turbo but using that turbo with 280's doesn't make any sense. Its like putting the head from a claw hammer on a 3 foot long sledge hammer handle. The two just won't work together.

John

 

My h1c (older hx35) spools as fast as my small 16g. I have the logs to prove it. And it flows more than the evo3 16g by about as much as the 20g. The hx35 in bolton fashion is jsut as much 'street' as the 16g breed.

 

[dsmless]

doing reasearch on the hx35, the maps are moving more air at lower rpms than the r30/35, that I have been seeing, due to the lower egt, now I'm not sure if that will change when you change over to a mitsu housingsince it was not designed with it, holset guys help out on this. Is it better to keep the Hx35 housing on it or change it to a mitsu for ease of installation?, thanks

 

Hx40 with the bep turbine housing: 650whp, 2.4 at 40psi. Hx35 with the bep turbine housing, 2.0 at 25psi: 500whp. See here .

Here's a copy of a PM I just sent to another member:

Quote:

The hx35 12cm^2 turbine housing (stock on all hx35 and wh1c turbos) will clear the block. I don't think the 18cm^2 and 21cm^2 turbine housign found stock on the h1c turbos will clear. Any hx35 will work for you. Grind a radius on the twinscroll divider and you have a turbo that spools to 20+ psi by about 4K. And enough turbine flow to max out the 52lb/min or the 58lb/min hx35 compressors. The gt30r, which flows about the same, spools to 20+ psi by 4400rpms .

The 52lb/min compressor has 8blades at the inducer and is found on the wh1c and the early hx35 (1994-1998). This compressor has as much flow based on the map as the gt30r/fp3052. The later 7blade hx35 (1998-2003) has as much flow on the compressor map as the 60-1 and has been logged at a little over 60lb/min. The stock 12cm^2 turbine housing with a non-divided runner manifold like yours will have plenty of turbine flow to reach the limit of the later hx35 compressor.

The h1c (not wh1c) comes with several comrpessor sizes, rangine in flow of the small 16g to the 20g. The one you want is the one with the 54mm compressor inducer diameter. I call this the 'big h1c'. This one flows as much as the 20g or 50-trim compressors and has the same awesome turbine wheel as the wh1c and hx35. These are found on INTERCOOLED 1991-1993 cummins pickups. there are non-intercooled pickups and they have the small h1c, which is not what you want if you want an upgrade to something more than evo3 16g flow.

Now, the bolton housing spools the hx35/wh1c/h1c about 400rpms faster than the 12cm^2 housing. The bolton housing with the hx35/wh1c/h1c turbine wheel is plenty of turbine to max out the 52 lb/min early hx35/wh1c compressor. And more than enough for the big h1c. So even if you pickup the lower flowing 'big h1c' and use the bolton housing, you will still have a turbo that spools to 20+ psi as fast as an evo3 16g (about 3500rpms), yet flows as much as a 50-trim.

So ANY hx35 is good for a little over 50lb/min with the BOLTON housing! If that is your goal, you'll have evo3 16g spool and almost 10lb/min more flow potential. But I venture to say that the bolton housing with the hx35 turbine wheel is probably a restriction to the later 58lb/min hx35 compressor. So if you're happy with a little better than a 50-trim in flow potential then get the bolton housing. But if you're ok with 20+ psi boost by 4K and better pumpgas numbers go for the stock 12cm^2 hx35/wh1c turbine housing. If you snag a 7blade later hx35 compressor and use the stock 12cm^2 turbine housing, then you have a 600hp turbo! And it will spool fully by 4K!!!

So it comes down to your goals.

BTW, the stock hx35 housing can come with an internal gate (That won't flow enough for gassers, so don't even try to use it) and a vband discharge.

MY bolton big h1c spools to 20+ psi by 3400rpm and, at 20psi, flows 4lb/min more than my 16g. It definately has more topend potential. Yet no sacrefice in spool speed swapping from my 16g.



So it comes down to your goal. If you have no bigger than the 8blade early hx35, you need no more than the bolton housing with the hx35 turbine wheel to have enough turbine flow to reach the full potential of that compressor.

 

[turbowop]

The gt30r doesn't hit 20psi until 4400rpm huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowrofl.gif you holset guys are funny.

 

Oh god Wheelhop is on this forum too?

Prepare for infinite holset sack rideage!

btw 650whp @40psi is not good.

 

[turbowop]

But it spools quicker than a 14b. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif

 

[cOmpressor]

Quoting turbowop:
The gt30r doesn't hit 20psi until 4400rpm huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowrofl.gif you holset guys are funny.



Ya really, 4400rpm takes so much longer to get to than 4000rpm.

 

[turbowop]

Actually, my FP3052 spools to 20psi or higher by 3800rpm. That's with a stock 7.8:1 motor with 136k miles on the bottom end, a Magnus intake manifold and HKS 272's. It actually feels snappier than my 16g car, but that probably has a lot to do with the lightweight twin disk. Regardless, 600rpm is pretty substantial, and I'm willing to bet that the Holset fanboys would use that argument to further their HX123098209382093 rhetoric.

I don't have a problem with people using Holsets. It's when they start touting them as a superior turbo for less money that I start an argument. Saying things like "a GT30r takes until 4400rpm to hit 20psi" is even worse. And they try sooooo hard to sell people on them. Maybe it gets lonely in the Holset camp. Even though they all act like they love the fact that because so few people use them, it keeps them cheaper, they still try so hard to gain mainstream attention. Everytime a noobie asks about a turbo upgrade we get the same long winded canned response from the same guys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif

 

I actually was holding my 1 year old when I originally typed that. I was trying to type 4000rpms. Apparently I didn't. I didn't even notice that until it was pointed out. And I apologize. I know when a gt30r spools. I wanted to tell the person that t3 footprint hx35 would spool the same as a gt30r (t3 footprint). And we all know the compressor map shows the same flow.

Likewise, I don't like to see things like "buy a real turbo" and "diesel turbos don't work well. That's why I have no personal experience with one". I've already said my peace. So you won't get any more horn blowing than one who favors a garrett or MHI turbo. I still think the OP should look at a smaller turbo than the gt35r. And the hx40.

If the OP really wants a gt35r size turbo, there's nothing wrong with FP or garrett products. But, I have a log of the bolton hx40 doing 20psi by 4K in 3rd gear. Not that the gt35r is a faulty turbo at all; however, if you're willing to accept the lag of a .63 a/r gt35r then you can take a look at such turbos as the hx40 in a t3 housing, which will do 650whp done by the SMALL .55 a/r housing but far below 40psi. The spool between an hx40 that will net that power at 32ish psi and a real gt35r is practically the same; 20+ psi by 4400ish rpms with a 2.0l 4g63 and 272 cams. The potential is the same, and the holset costs less. I don't see a problem with the garret piece at all. But personally, I would just rather add a manifold upgrade to my setup and run a turbo of the same potential all for the same price. It's the bank account holder's call. Nothing more.

If you read what I said, you will see that I said nothing to "bash" a garrett or other turbo. And, if you know me, then you know I'm no fool in understanding gas turbine theory and what a track run reveals. I posted what I said in reply to the post before it.

 

[Brianawd]

f*** I must be doing this all wrong. This gt30 that I am running is all wrong. Its time to switch to a HX35/40. That will for sure get me into the 10s /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif

 

Nope. You're doing it the right way. There's only one brand of turbo that will net a 10second timeslip /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif .

 

[cOmpressor]

Is that brand name SSAutochrome? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif