We're not talking about tightening a screw with a fluid-seal fitting, so I've not heard of anybody using a torque wrench on an AN fitting and I'd think the pipe fitters would look at you a little funny bringing that stuff out in the field...
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Stripped valve cover bolts.
- Thread starter gvr4ever
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turbowop
Well-known member
I think some people may look at you a bit funny if you suggested warming up the car before removing the valve cover bolts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif
Barnes
Well-known member
Quoting JNR:
We're not talking about tightening a screw with a fluid-seal fitting, so I've not heard of anybody using a torque wrench on an AN fitting and I'd think the pipe fitters would look at you a little funny bringing that stuff out in the field...
Which is exactly why the pipe fitters would f*** stuff up ALL THE TIME at my last job. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Good-n-tight is a shitty way to work on mechanical equipment.
We're not talking about tightening a screw with a fluid-seal fitting, so I've not heard of anybody using a torque wrench on an AN fitting and I'd think the pipe fitters would look at you a little funny bringing that stuff out in the field...
Which is exactly why the pipe fitters would f*** stuff up ALL THE TIME at my last job. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
Good-n-tight is a shitty way to work on mechanical equipment.
Quoting turbowop:
I don't expect anybody to ride my nuts. Do you have some sort of chip on your shoulder because I have a nice car? The way I post on the forum now is no different than the way I did it before my car was "clean". Get over it.
And I'm not splitting hairs. What works for you is f***ing stupid, IMO. Putting RTV on the valve cover bolts is retarded and unnecessary. RTFM. It's not needed.
*edit* Jesus titty f***ing christ. I was trying to reply to your comment three posts up with this but you went on a reply spree. Figure out how to put multiple quotes in one reply.
I honestly could not care less what kind of car you drive, i too have a nice car. In fact, i have three nice vehciles that i can drive any time i want. And a recreational vehicle but thats not the point.
I offered up my opinion to the OP and you had to try and diesect it. Are you insecure or just bored? Lonely?
Its not needed but i found that it worked for me. Not putting anti seize on an fittings is stupid.
I know hoe to do multiple replies in one thread but on a mobile device and with this forums ancient design its easier for me to just reply and quote one person at a time.
I don't expect anybody to ride my nuts. Do you have some sort of chip on your shoulder because I have a nice car? The way I post on the forum now is no different than the way I did it before my car was "clean". Get over it.
And I'm not splitting hairs. What works for you is f***ing stupid, IMO. Putting RTV on the valve cover bolts is retarded and unnecessary. RTFM. It's not needed.
*edit* Jesus titty f***ing christ. I was trying to reply to your comment three posts up with this but you went on a reply spree. Figure out how to put multiple quotes in one reply.
I honestly could not care less what kind of car you drive, i too have a nice car. In fact, i have three nice vehciles that i can drive any time i want. And a recreational vehicle but thats not the point.
I offered up my opinion to the OP and you had to try and diesect it. Are you insecure or just bored? Lonely?
Its not needed but i found that it worked for me. Not putting anti seize on an fittings is stupid.
I know hoe to do multiple replies in one thread but on a mobile device and with this forums ancient design its easier for me to just reply and quote one person at a time.
Quoting turbowop:
And wasting time by adding unnecessary RTV or antisieze will make you even m0ar poor.
When using the FSM, you can change R&R steps to be quicker, but I would hope you wouldn't change torque values or required thread sealants/lockers/antisieze.
A tube of anti seize is less than three or four bucks. I figure i hardly ever put anti seize on fittings cause one small dab is enough to allow the fitting to screw on smoothly without binding up, especially for hoses that have an arch in them a bit, which is many of them.
Noonbsauce, some fabricators disagree with you on the anti seize.
As for torque values, i just torque it down tight and leave it, havent had any issues at all. Im confident in my wrenching abilities. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
A quick search showed me this thread. Its a totally gay name drop but i guess troy at rad rides uses some moly lube on fittings.
click
Which brings me to my next point, turbowop, if no lube was needed, why does arp and other companies make paste and lube for threads?
Seems like its personal preference.
And wasting time by adding unnecessary RTV or antisieze will make you even m0ar poor.
When using the FSM, you can change R&R steps to be quicker, but I would hope you wouldn't change torque values or required thread sealants/lockers/antisieze.
A tube of anti seize is less than three or four bucks. I figure i hardly ever put anti seize on fittings cause one small dab is enough to allow the fitting to screw on smoothly without binding up, especially for hoses that have an arch in them a bit, which is many of them.
Noonbsauce, some fabricators disagree with you on the anti seize.
As for torque values, i just torque it down tight and leave it, havent had any issues at all. Im confident in my wrenching abilities. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
A quick search showed me this thread. Its a totally gay name drop but i guess troy at rad rides uses some moly lube on fittings.
click
Which brings me to my next point, turbowop, if no lube was needed, why does arp and other companies make paste and lube for threads?
Seems like its personal preference.
Quoting Noobsauce:
Barnes
I can see if someone wasn't sure on how tight to have the fitting then a torque wrench could help you. But over time you just get a feel for how tight is tight enough. (granted I say this for anything that is not a major engine component.
Yeah there is a point where you can apply a ton of force and the fitting really wont tighten anymore because the flared surfaces are mating anyway so wop splitting hairs about this is sofaking retarded. Ive tried to be rough with some fittings on purpose to test the limit and you need quite a bit of force to damage them.
Barnes
I can see if someone wasn't sure on how tight to have the fitting then a torque wrench could help you. But over time you just get a feel for how tight is tight enough. (granted I say this for anything that is not a major engine component.
Yeah there is a point where you can apply a ton of force and the fitting really wont tighten anymore because the flared surfaces are mating anyway so wop splitting hairs about this is sofaking retarded. Ive tried to be rough with some fittings on purpose to test the limit and you need quite a bit of force to damage them.
turbowop
Well-known member
Quoting PearsVR4:
I honestly could not care less what kind of car you drive, i too have a nice car. In fact, i have three nice vehciles that i can drive any time i want. And a recreational vehicle but thats not the point.
I offered up my opinion to the OP and you had to try and diesect it. Are you insecure or just bored? Lonely?
Its not needed but i found that it worked for me. Not putting anti seize on an fittings is stupid.
I know hoe to do multiple replies in one thread but on a mobile device and with this forums ancient design its easier for me to just reply and quote one person at a time.
You mentioned people riding my nuts over my clean car, not me. If you don't care, why bring it up? And I didn't start out by "dissecting" your opinion. I just said it wasn't necessary. Even in the above quoted post you say it's not needed. But it works for you? What the f*** does that mean? I already explained how AN fittings don't require antisieze, so I won't go there again.
Quoting PearsVR4:
Which brings me to my next point, turbowop, if no lube was needed, why does arp and other companies make paste and lube for threads?
Seems like its personal preference.
ARP makes lube for their headstuds, which are specifically designed/engineered to use it. They even give different torque values depending on whether you use their moly lube or plain motor oil. Please tell me what the Mitsu FSM says the torque value is changed to when using RTV on valve cover bolts. Oh wait, IT DOESN'T, because it's not necessary.
I honestly could not care less what kind of car you drive, i too have a nice car. In fact, i have three nice vehciles that i can drive any time i want. And a recreational vehicle but thats not the point.
I offered up my opinion to the OP and you had to try and diesect it. Are you insecure or just bored? Lonely?
Its not needed but i found that it worked for me. Not putting anti seize on an fittings is stupid.
I know hoe to do multiple replies in one thread but on a mobile device and with this forums ancient design its easier for me to just reply and quote one person at a time.
You mentioned people riding my nuts over my clean car, not me. If you don't care, why bring it up? And I didn't start out by "dissecting" your opinion. I just said it wasn't necessary. Even in the above quoted post you say it's not needed. But it works for you? What the f*** does that mean? I already explained how AN fittings don't require antisieze, so I won't go there again.
Quoting PearsVR4:
Which brings me to my next point, turbowop, if no lube was needed, why does arp and other companies make paste and lube for threads?
Seems like its personal preference.
ARP makes lube for their headstuds, which are specifically designed/engineered to use it. They even give different torque values depending on whether you use their moly lube or plain motor oil. Please tell me what the Mitsu FSM says the torque value is changed to when using RTV on valve cover bolts. Oh wait, IT DOESN'T, because it's not necessary.
turbowop
Well-known member
Quoting PearsVR4:
Quoting turbowop:
I think some people may look at you a bit funny if you suggested warming up the car before removing the valve cover bolts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif
...and people *really* will look at you funny on your lack of reading comprehension, lol. Give it up while you're still ahead.
barnes, point was that there are other ways of ensuring proper torque on tube-type fittings and don't think they use torque wrenches, but instead go by (partial) turns past snug...if we're talking flanges then of course what becomes more important is bolt sequence, as I'm sure you're aware. Not saying you couldn't torque the fittings, but honestly don't think anybody does or needs to with tube/an fittings, unless they're just not even tightening them at all.
btw - you must work with a lot of union guys or something if they're not torquing them properly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif ...we don't have such problems with our guys and we work on critical equipment that cannot have such errors. In fact, don't think I've ever run into any leaking issues from them not tightening tube nuts properly, as even a monkey should be able to do that, provided they don't cross-thread them or re-use them too much. As I mentioned, an amatuer mistake is pulling in your work via threads; never a good idea.
I think some people may look at you a bit funny if you suggested warming up the car before removing the valve cover bolts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif
...and people *really* will look at you funny on your lack of reading comprehension, lol. Give it up while you're still ahead.
barnes, point was that there are other ways of ensuring proper torque on tube-type fittings and don't think they use torque wrenches, but instead go by (partial) turns past snug...if we're talking flanges then of course what becomes more important is bolt sequence, as I'm sure you're aware. Not saying you couldn't torque the fittings, but honestly don't think anybody does or needs to with tube/an fittings, unless they're just not even tightening them at all.
btw - you must work with a lot of union guys or something if they're not torquing them properly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif ...we don't have such problems with our guys and we work on critical equipment that cannot have such errors. In fact, don't think I've ever run into any leaking issues from them not tightening tube nuts properly, as even a monkey should be able to do that, provided they don't cross-thread them or re-use them too much. As I mentioned, an amatuer mistake is pulling in your work via threads; never a good idea.
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turbowop
Well-known member
Quoting JNR:
...and people *really* will look at you funny on your lack of reading comprehension, lol. Give it up while you're still ahead.
Then why even bring up irrelevant information like pulling valve cover bolts out of a warm engine? In an effort to impress others with your vast old-school knowledge? My reading comprehension is just fine, thx. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roll.gif
My point was never that what you're saying is bad info, it's just that it isn't the issue here. Stripped valve cover bolts are from overtightening, cross-threading, or junk in the threads, not because people are pulling them out of the head when they're cold. FAWK! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
...and people *really* will look at you funny on your lack of reading comprehension, lol. Give it up while you're still ahead.
Then why even bring up irrelevant information like pulling valve cover bolts out of a warm engine? In an effort to impress others with your vast old-school knowledge? My reading comprehension is just fine, thx. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roll.gif
My point was never that what you're saying is bad info, it's just that it isn't the issue here. Stripped valve cover bolts are from overtightening, cross-threading, or junk in the threads, not because people are pulling them out of the head when they're cold. FAWK! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
I understand where you coming from and the original thread has to do with valve cover screws, but the *general* statement I made about aluminum threads possibly galling when the material is cold holds true whether it be on a car, an industrial piece of machinery or something around the house (that would experience cycles, weather, etc.)...Sure it may be a less common occurence with a valve cover screw vs. something that comes in contact with coolant, let's say, but doesn't mean it's not a possibility.
I was not suggesting you *have to* have a warmed up engine to remove the bolts, but your chances of the threads getting messed up will diminish a great deal if you do. I've removed them and installed them numerous times when it was cold and haven't run into the issue, although I generally always use anti-sieze even on my plugs, so I wouldn't expect any problems. Working on something that is old and has been thru numerous cycles just opens up more possibilities of things going wrong and I'm not one to risk turning a simple projetc into a headache. Generally speaking, you can feel how it's coming out (or maybe even hear), so at that point you can make the determination...Even on my nissan truck (only had 18k miles on) when I pulled the oem studs out of the intake manifold (bottom is alum.), I ran into some issues, where as when I warmed it up (on dyno day), it went much better. Finally, I like to use stainless hardware quite a lot, so this holds more true (possible galling; using anti-sieze) vs. the oem steel, but even so.
I was not suggesting you *have to* have a warmed up engine to remove the bolts, but your chances of the threads getting messed up will diminish a great deal if you do. I've removed them and installed them numerous times when it was cold and haven't run into the issue, although I generally always use anti-sieze even on my plugs, so I wouldn't expect any problems. Working on something that is old and has been thru numerous cycles just opens up more possibilities of things going wrong and I'm not one to risk turning a simple projetc into a headache. Generally speaking, you can feel how it's coming out (or maybe even hear), so at that point you can make the determination...Even on my nissan truck (only had 18k miles on) when I pulled the oem studs out of the intake manifold (bottom is alum.), I ran into some issues, where as when I warmed it up (on dyno day), it went much better. Finally, I like to use stainless hardware quite a lot, so this holds more true (possible galling; using anti-sieze) vs. the oem steel, but even so.
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and btw...I merely share my experiences to possibly help another person out from making the same mistake and that is how we learn. I am not out to impress anybody and strive to do the opposite whenever possible, but if it come across that way, I cannot help that. I guess I don't understand why so many things just have to be an argument on this board and people going out of their way to try and belittle the other guy; I mean, there's a humorous way to do it and we should all have fun here, but I'm talking about the constanticity of the nitpick stuff...I think I've come to the realization of why so many past 'valuable' members have left.
Noobsauce
Well-known member
It's ok pearsvr4 lots of people claim to know what they are talking about. The difference is I have race proven results to back me. Also ARP lube is only recommended for arp hardware when applicable. One more thing the only time a bolt is required to use RTV is when it intrudes into a water jacket or and oil passage. Most cases those engines are domestics.
^ i dont believe you. I dont know you so what you say has no merit to me. What difference is it if i say that i have proven experience to back me up? None. You arent proving anything to me, you are arguing with someone over the internet about something as small as valve cover bolts.
Not to mention you have the word "noob" in your username. Who would believe a "noob"?
Not to mention you have the word "noob" in your username. Who would believe a "noob"?
Noobsauce
Well-known member
PearsVR4 I don't beleive I was trying to insult you. Mearly stating facts of what works and what is not nessisary. If you want to use RTV and antiseize on everything go ahead.
And as far as my user name I purposely used it to weed out and find the tools that try to stoop to highschool tactics. You have proven on many posts within this site that you are a troll. I suggest you stop the insulting remarks before the mods deside to freeze your account. Your kind is not welcome here or in this world.
And as far as my user name I purposely used it to weed out and find the tools that try to stoop to highschool tactics. You have proven on many posts within this site that you are a troll. I suggest you stop the insulting remarks before the mods deside to freeze your account. Your kind is not welcome here or in this world.
turbowop
Well-known member
Why is PearsVR4's IP addy based out of Tempe, AZ? Yet his location is Roanoke, TX? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif
gvr4ever
Well-known member
Quoting iceman69510:
So the injector cleaning worked?
Sorry, I just now saw this post. Yes, the injector cleaning worked. It runs exactly like it should, and better then it has in awhile. I send that one back this week, or maybe hand it to you in person.
So the injector cleaning worked?
Sorry, I just now saw this post. Yes, the injector cleaning worked. It runs exactly like it should, and better then it has in awhile. I send that one back this week, or maybe hand it to you in person.
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