Post your FMIC and FMIC Info

quote:Originally posted by theymightbegalants:
Doug, why do you say that short pipe routing has no affect at all on power or performance? It seems to me, that with the stock routing going over the hot manifold, it can absorb a lot of heat and then transfer that to the charge air. Not only is hot air less dense, thus less potential for power, it's more likely to knock, which not only robs power (timing) but is damaging. Also, the short piping uses less pipe, obviously, so there's less distance for the air to travel from the turbo to the TB, improving throttle response. Do you think this is untrue? If so, you could have 10 feet if IC piping wound spiral fashion around the manifold and downpipe, and this would be no more detrimental than a short IC pipe route? In theory short route piping seems that it would be better, but from I’ve seen in the real world on Galants and some DSMs cars that run very fast at the track and dyno some good number with stock routing pipes the shorter piping doesn’t make a difference.

 

Katie....

Is that a shannon kit?..

 

quote:Originally posted by theymightbegalants:
quote:Originally posted by galantvr4us:
There have been tests on this and if I remember correctly you would actually have to route your piping almost the whole length of the car before you would see power drop. I thought the same thing until I was corrected.

Katie This is interesting, but I'm not just talking about a peak power drop. I think you could sit in traffic for 15 min. and heatsoak the crap out of the pipe over the exh. mani and the core, but once you get going and get not only air flowing over the front of the core, but through the pipes, thus absorbing the heat of the pipe and transmitting it to the core, there would be virtually no difference. But what about when you don't care about peak power? What if *gasp* you're not a drag racer and you care about throttle response, the shape of the torque curve when you don't have a lot of flow but high load, such as autocrossing? It's things like these where I would think that a short route is better. But, I'm not an engineer, and I've never done any quantitative testing in this area. Katie, do you happen to have any links or pointers to these tests you speak of? Its in a book-I didn't read it myself but a friend of mine did. SOrry I can't remember if he said anything about throttle response. I just was told about the basics because he also did my intercooler pipe and I wanted shorter pipe in which he then explained tests they did and it would take a lot of pipe to show a difference. I do not remember the book.

Katie

 

quote:Originally posted by DookGVR4:
Katie....

Is that a shannon kit?.. No. Custom.

Katie

 

[number3]

The quality and quanity of bends in your system are the key!

For every bend you add you add lenght to the system.


"If you take an 8 inch round pipe, 2 feet long and bend it 90 degrees, the air flow decreases as it makes the turn because of the pressure build up. This pressure is now greater than it would be in that same 2 foot piece of pipe when it was straight. This pressure is measured and compared to a straight piece of pipe without any bends. The result is - the 8 inch round pipe - 2 feet long, with a 90 degree bend, has the EQUIVALENT pressure of an 8 inch round straight piece of pipe 25 feet long. This sample is from the ACCA (Air Conditioning Contractors Association) duct work engineering manual."

Harry

 

katie what core is that?

 

quote:Originally posted by 1quickvr4:
Its all in how you trim it, IF you cut the front bars out it will sag and if you chop the support in two it will sag, Dont cut the bumper cover and take as little of of the support as possible. I didnt have to do any cutting of the bumper or suppot on my jdm bumper with a street core. I did trim the core support and the hood latch support. When I had a US bumper, I cut the stock supports in 2 and cut out fins in the cover and it wasent to bad, But I think if your carfull and only cut what you need it should be a s solid as stock. From the pics I’ve seen I figured they had no choice and had chop up the bumper to get it to fit. I know the Spearco 2-178 will fit with out a hacking up the bumper, but I don’t think it’s same with 2-216 because it’s so much bigger.

 

[TWEAKD4]

I have the same system as Hibrn8. Spearco 2-221 with TEL style pipe routing. Endtanks on same side with custom made pipes.

 

quote:Originally posted by number3:


15-20" of "extra" IC piping is not going to make any difference in performance, but adding 6-12 unneeded bends will.

Harry

Harry, could these 'unneeded' bends be in mine and everyone elses upgraded IC pipes following the stock route?

 

[turbowop]

Just be thankful we don't have Subaru WRX's that were trying to put fmic's in. Lots of bends and piping required for one in those cars. And that last bend into the throttle body that I have seen on WRX pipes is crazy....it's almost a full 180 degrees.

I agree that short routing probably helps response and spoolup and such, but I'm not going to go and change all my stuff around because I think the gains would be quite minimal for the work involved. I think with "short routing" on a gvr4 which requires two 90 degree bends--one to come out of the endtank then up behind the headlight, and another to aim the piping into the engine bay I would only lose maybe one and a half 90 degree bends on my system.

 

quote:Originally posted by Clay:
katie what core is that? Don't know the guy that made it makes the radiators and high end intercoolers for the F1 cars and such. I couldn't tell you the core. He did supurb work.

Katie

 

Well if anyone can figure out the test for the intercooler pipe theory I'd be willing to test it out since I'm pretty sure no one has shorter piping than I do in fact I don't think shorter piping is possible. Though I don't think it's a big difference in power the length, the bend theory is correct and so is the throttle response theory I made mine as short as I did so that I could maximize the throttle respone and to prove a point as far as Air/water intercoolers are concerned.

 

Since I have quite a few pics of the install as well, here is a link with all the pics. Still need to get one with the bumper on, lol.

http://groups.msn.com/IansGalantVR4/fmicandpipinginstall.msnw?albumlist=2

I have RRE GVR-4 Piping and a Spearco core with custom endtanks. The Core is something like 22"x12"x3.5"

 

[spoulson]

quote:Originally posted by Scott Y:
Extreme FMIC kit
http://www.wideopenwest.com/~syorga Do you know if Extreme still sells the kit? Their website has had the FMIC listed for as long as I can remember. But their catalog says "this will be a limited production run! This is a once in a lifetime opportunity."

 

quote:Originally posted by number3:
The quality and quanity of bends in your system are the key!

For every bend you add you add lenght to the system.


"If you take an 8 inch round pipe, 2 feet long and bend it 90 degrees, the air flow decreases as it makes the turn because of the pressure build up. This pressure is now greater than it would be in that same 2 foot piece of pipe when it was straight. This pressure is measured and compared to a straight piece of pipe without any bends. The result is - the 8 inch round pipe - 2 feet long, with a 90 degree bend, has the EQUIVALENT pressure of an 8 inch round straight piece of pipe 25 feet long. This sample is from the ACCA (Air Conditioning Contractors Association) duct work engineering manual."

Harry Again nice theory, but it doesn’t make a difference. The quality of the pipes is not going to make a difference no matter if it’s mild steel, stainless or aluminum. Have you every seen the pipe routing on the AMS EVO III?

I would think the intercooler you use is the most important. If you want to build a good intercooler system get yourself good intercooler to start with and when I say good I don’t mean a 16-year-old junkyard one.

 

Does anyone have pics with the Spearco 2-216 core on their Galant where the bumper cover is not hanging and sagging? I really like that core, but hate the way the bumper cover fits over it.

 

Its all in how you trim it, IF you cut the front bars out it will sag and if you chop the support in two it will sag, Dont cut the bumper cover and take as little of of the support as possible. I didnt have to do any cutting of the bumper or suppot on my jdm bumper with a street core. I did trim the core support and the hood latch support. When I had a US bumper, I cut the stock supports in 2 and cut out fins in the cover and it wasent to bad, But I think if your carfull and only cut what you need it should be a s solid as stock.

 

[Whistler]

Here are a few pictures of my intercooler:





Please disregard the dents, leaves, bird sh*t, and miscellaneous dirt.

 

quote:Originally posted by Whistler:
Here are a few pictures of my intercooler:





Please disregard the dents, leaves, bird sh*t, and miscellaneous dirt. Any pics with the bumper cover on the car?

 

[curtis]

3 Ford Thunderbird 2.3 cores had one, friend had one bought one for 10 dollars. Welding was 50 bucks. Total investment 60 dollars and gas to the junkyard.

It measures 27 x 12 x 3. Not the most perfect layout for flow but builds up ice in the winter on almost the whole thing so I suppose it works.


old pic with the 2 inch pipes

top pipe (part ac dryer bottle, aicraft elbow, aem honda cold air pipe and stock Galant Vr4 air intake elbow)