CarRacer
Well-known member
You're obviously not listening to any of the advice being dispensed here. Go build your car and motor the way you want and save everyones time.
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Need Some serious motor building discussion
- Thread starter mountaineerjeff
- Start date
mountaineerjeff
Well-known member
i most definently do listen, especially if your productive, instead of bein a jerk.
so im asking, are you saying that forged internals cant make 50,000+ miles
and cast ones on lots of boost can?
if so, isnt it the best idea for me to use evo3 pistons?
so im asking, are you saying that forged internals cant make 50,000+ miles
and cast ones on lots of boost can?
if so, isnt it the best idea for me to use evo3 pistons?
CarRacer
Well-known member
You need to do a lot more research if you are serious about what you are asking. Stock internals will accomplish your goal, but won't handle the "1000 hp for reliability".
I don't know what your hard on for Evo3 parts is about either. The most proven and popular combo of stock parts is 1G rods and 2G pistons.
I don't know what your hard on for Evo3 parts is about either. The most proven and popular combo of stock parts is 1G rods and 2G pistons.
Terry Posten
Well-known member
A 4G63, or any other 4 cly motor making 600hp will not last 50,000 miles unless you baby it all the time.
I don't care if you do make a 1000hp motor an "de-tune" it to 600, it will NOT last for 50K.
I don't care if you do make a 1000hp motor an "de-tune" it to 600, it will NOT last for 50K.
turbowop
Well-known member
Have you ever ridden in a 4g63 powered car that puts down 500-600whp? Even if the bottom end lasts 50k miles, other things will need to be addressed during that time due to the power. What is the deal with people wanting 600whp daily drivers? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif My car is probably a bit under 500whp and it's ridiculous on the street. It's a weekend fun car that I take to the grocery store sometimes on weeknights. I guess I could commute with it if I really had to, but what's the point? Maybe once in a while, but definitely not for the daily grind 52 weeks a year. I have my "not so built" gvr4 for trips and normal sh*t. It's a lot more tolerable for regular use.
The stock bottom end will hold lots of power if properly built. Hell, a low mileage JDM motor is sometimes the best bet since they're factory built. 1051 is such a fun car the way it sits, I don't think I'll ever build a "built" forged motor for it. There's no need, as the stock stuff handles what I throw at it just fine. If you wanna build a race car that puts down mad powEr, than build a forged bottom end, but I wouldn't plan on daily'ing it. It's not the forged internals that won't last, it's just all the sh*t that goes along with making that much power.
IMO, if you want a fun daily driver, build a stock reliable bottom end, save some money, don't go overboard on the turbo, and let the good times roll.
Here is an in-car vid that Myles took of my car while he was visiting. It's the best thing I have to show how much fun a stock bottom end car can be since I haven't raced since '05. You can hear the tires grabbing for traction all through second, and a little in third when we hit a bump. It pulls hard for a stock 138k mile 7.8:1 bottom end.
youtubez
The stock bottom end will hold lots of power if properly built. Hell, a low mileage JDM motor is sometimes the best bet since they're factory built. 1051 is such a fun car the way it sits, I don't think I'll ever build a "built" forged motor for it. There's no need, as the stock stuff handles what I throw at it just fine. If you wanna build a race car that puts down mad powEr, than build a forged bottom end, but I wouldn't plan on daily'ing it. It's not the forged internals that won't last, it's just all the sh*t that goes along with making that much power.
IMO, if you want a fun daily driver, build a stock reliable bottom end, save some money, don't go overboard on the turbo, and let the good times roll.
Here is an in-car vid that Myles took of my car while he was visiting. It's the best thing I have to show how much fun a stock bottom end car can be since I haven't raced since '05. You can hear the tires grabbing for traction all through second, and a little in third when we hit a bump. It pulls hard for a stock 138k mile 7.8:1 bottom end.
youtubez
I will chime in also. THERE IS NO NEED FOR OVER 500hp in a street car. My 1g makes about the same power wop makes with a 3065 and its stupid on the street. I say get a nice stock motor and run a 16g on e85. Thats a real street car if you ask me. Again this is ADVISE which is what your asking for so don't take it as gospel Wop you have pm.
Terry Posten
Well-known member
I wont even drive my car in the wet. I value my car and my life.
My car hits the boost so hard I would be spinning in circles before I knew what was happening. And that is only at 20psi on pump.
I am seriously thinking about trading down my snail for a little bit more "fun" on the street.
My car hits the boost so hard I would be spinning in circles before I knew what was happening. And that is only at 20psi on pump.
I am seriously thinking about trading down my snail for a little bit more "fun" on the street.
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mountaineerjeff
Well-known member
Quoting CarRacer:
I don't know what your hard on for Evo3 parts is about either. The most proven and popular combo of stock parts is 1G rods and 2G pistons.
The reason for the evo pistons is their hi8gh compression, they run at 9.0:1 They can be fitted to 1g rods the same way 2gs can but have higher cr, but are still built for turbo.
so for the bottom end will i turbo block, evo3 pistons and 1g rods be the best combination? Money is no issue here, so you guys think that fitted pistons on 1g rods will be better then forged rods and pistons with the chosen CR? YOu guys have alot more experience, and I am listening, it just seems that it makes since that new forged peices would be longer lasting then new cast ones, that are machined to fit.
If thats not the case then fine, becuase it will make it cheaper, but i WILL sacrifice money for performance and longevity.
Please keep the assistance coming, Im asking cause I know you guys will get everything straight.
I don't know what your hard on for Evo3 parts is about either. The most proven and popular combo of stock parts is 1G rods and 2G pistons.
The reason for the evo pistons is their hi8gh compression, they run at 9.0:1 They can be fitted to 1g rods the same way 2gs can but have higher cr, but are still built for turbo.
so for the bottom end will i turbo block, evo3 pistons and 1g rods be the best combination? Money is no issue here, so you guys think that fitted pistons on 1g rods will be better then forged rods and pistons with the chosen CR? YOu guys have alot more experience, and I am listening, it just seems that it makes since that new forged peices would be longer lasting then new cast ones, that are machined to fit.
If thats not the case then fine, becuase it will make it cheaper, but i WILL sacrifice money for performance and longevity.
Please keep the assistance coming, Im asking cause I know you guys will get everything straight.
Terry Posten
Well-known member
"Money is no issue here"
Then why ask so many questions?
Go to any builder and tell them money is not an issue, tell them you want 600hp and it needs to last 50K.
They will build you a motor, dyno prove 600hp, and give you a 50K warranty.
They are going to charge you 5 times the amount the motor should cost (to cover a few replacement motors) buy hey, money is not an issue right?
You say money is not an issue, but your trying to cheap out with stock parts, make 3 times more power than what they were designed for, and have it last 50K. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
I'm so confused. I'm done with this discussion. This really should be in the newbie section.
Then why ask so many questions?
Go to any builder and tell them money is not an issue, tell them you want 600hp and it needs to last 50K.
They will build you a motor, dyno prove 600hp, and give you a 50K warranty.
They are going to charge you 5 times the amount the motor should cost (to cover a few replacement motors) buy hey, money is not an issue right?
You say money is not an issue, but your trying to cheap out with stock parts, make 3 times more power than what they were designed for, and have it last 50K. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
I'm so confused. I'm done with this discussion. This really should be in the newbie section.
mountaineerjeff
Well-known member
seriously???!!!???
I recommended a completely forged motor, but was told by others to pursue stock internals. Not for their cost but for their reliability?
there has only been a couple productive posts on here, and I think that the rest of those should be kept in the newbie section, and keep serious technical answers here, thats why I posted it here, to recieve good tech anwsers, not stuff that I already know.
I recommended a completely forged motor, but was told by others to pursue stock internals. Not for their cost but for their reliability?
there has only been a couple productive posts on here, and I think that the rest of those should be kept in the newbie section, and keep serious technical answers here, thats why I posted it here, to recieve good tech anwsers, not stuff that I already know.
fivestardsm
Well-known member
Jeff, If money isn't an issue, contact these guys. They can build you what you want for what you can afford as long as you can afford thier low end motor. Which i think starts around $3000. He quoted my friend $6000 for a motor capable of 700hp.
Just a thought. Also, high compression pistons arent nessicary with turbo motors. 9:1 is more than what you need for what you want.
A guy that I used to work with wasn't to savey on the high compression + forced induction, and bought a 10:1 motor, then threw a roots style blower on it and a 8 pound pulley. Well, I can walk into his garage today, and see the hole in the ceeling where the intake flew off the car and into his attic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Thats a hell of a way to waste 10k.. Granted, where talking tottaly different setups, but it still the same principal. The 8 or 8.5:1 with the correct turbo, will give you reliability. Also, aluminum rods will not last as long as the stock cast ones. Hell I have a talon with 280k on it, and it is all stock motor with 2g manifold, 3" turbo back, small 16G hard pipe and the stock smic. I always kept the maintnace on it and changed the t-belt 2 times. It might not have a ton of power, but it never left me stranded until the head gasket decided it needed to take a break.
Just a thought. Also, high compression pistons arent nessicary with turbo motors. 9:1 is more than what you need for what you want.
A guy that I used to work with wasn't to savey on the high compression + forced induction, and bought a 10:1 motor, then threw a roots style blower on it and a 8 pound pulley. Well, I can walk into his garage today, and see the hole in the ceeling where the intake flew off the car and into his attic. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Thats a hell of a way to waste 10k.. Granted, where talking tottaly different setups, but it still the same principal. The 8 or 8.5:1 with the correct turbo, will give you reliability. Also, aluminum rods will not last as long as the stock cast ones. Hell I have a talon with 280k on it, and it is all stock motor with 2g manifold, 3" turbo back, small 16G hard pipe and the stock smic. I always kept the maintnace on it and changed the t-belt 2 times. It might not have a ton of power, but it never left me stranded until the head gasket decided it needed to take a break.
GVR4_1057
Well-known member
Quoting mountaineerjeff:
Well if you dont know, 1630 caught on fire a few months back, and left me carless, jobless, and BROKE.
Quoting mountaineerjeff:
Money is no issue here,
There is a lot about this thread that does not add up to me. Everyone that has replied to your request for advise has given you solid helpful suggestons based on years of 4G63 experience. They have seen many people with very high aspiratons that things did not work out for very well. This is good help , sorry if it does not match what you are envisioning. These guys are speaking on realistic terms and they are not trying to belittle you.
Well if you dont know, 1630 caught on fire a few months back, and left me carless, jobless, and BROKE.
Quoting mountaineerjeff:
Money is no issue here,
There is a lot about this thread that does not add up to me. Everyone that has replied to your request for advise has given you solid helpful suggestons based on years of 4G63 experience. They have seen many people with very high aspiratons that things did not work out for very well. This is good help , sorry if it does not match what you are envisioning. These guys are speaking on realistic terms and they are not trying to belittle you.
3rdstrikedsm
Well-known member
Dude, Run as far away from that car as you can and don't stop running until you get to a honda dealership. And then purchase a nice reliable car that will not mess with your life.
Seriously these cars are old and need big$$ to even keep them reliable in stock form not to mention trying to mod at the same time.
Take what money you have and buy a rsx or something and put a turbo kit on it and it will be fun and reliable at the same time.
Get out while you can, This car is trying to tell you something. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Seriously these cars are old and need big$$ to even keep them reliable in stock form not to mention trying to mod at the same time.
Take what money you have and buy a rsx or something and put a turbo kit on it and it will be fun and reliable at the same time.
Get out while you can, This car is trying to tell you something. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif
Quoting mountaineerjeff:
Well if you dont know, 1630 caught on fire a few months back, and left me carless, jobless, and BROKE.
Quoting mountaineerjeff:
Money is no issue here,
I was waiting for someone to make this connection!
Well if you dont know, 1630 caught on fire a few months back, and left me carless, jobless, and BROKE.
Quoting mountaineerjeff:
Money is no issue here,
I was waiting for someone to make this connection!
mountaineerjeff
Well-known member
Quoting mountaineerjeff:
Well if you dont know, 1630 caught on fire a few months back, and left me carless, jobless, and BROKE. I was about 6" from givin up hope and trashing it, but i kept it in the yard, and things are starting to turn around .
why dont you finish reading? all this is just not being helpful.
My question is this
is 9.0 a good CR to run? I know people are running higher now, and 9.0 is the stock CR for the evo3
What are the best rods and pistons to use? actual brand/company names
should the crank just be stock? Or would a lightend or knifed one be better?
should I stick with a stock block and just get it treated, or go with an after market one from somewhere?
There was a post saying that the bottom end would last for 50k, but not everything else, so doesnt that just leave the head? I dont see cams wearing out, so would that just mean the valves? what if I went with titanium valves? are they even available?
Well if you dont know, 1630 caught on fire a few months back, and left me carless, jobless, and BROKE. I was about 6" from givin up hope and trashing it, but i kept it in the yard, and things are starting to turn around .
why dont you finish reading? all this is just not being helpful.
My question is this
is 9.0 a good CR to run? I know people are running higher now, and 9.0 is the stock CR for the evo3
What are the best rods and pistons to use? actual brand/company names
should the crank just be stock? Or would a lightend or knifed one be better?
should I stick with a stock block and just get it treated, or go with an after market one from somewhere?
There was a post saying that the bottom end would last for 50k, but not everything else, so doesnt that just leave the head? I dont see cams wearing out, so would that just mean the valves? what if I went with titanium valves? are they even available?
turbowop
Well-known member
What compression ratio you run is pretty dependent on what type of fuel you plan to use most of the time. You can run and tune higher compression stuff easier if you have something like E85 available, but if you're just running 91 or 92 octane it becomes a bit more difficult.
mountaineerjeff
Well-known member
I plan on running 93, I figure that should be enough to run 9.0 right? seeing how that was the evo cr stock, if there are problems, i can just run it a little rich correct? One major issue is that E85 is not available
Terry Posten
Well-known member
It all depends on how you drive it.
You go balls to the wall off every light and thrash it down the track every weekend, then NO.
But you drive it with care and keep up with the maint, then yes.
But with high CR, you wont be able to run pump gas much above 15psi.
I have an 8:1 setup and I can run 24psi on the street (at night) on 93.
You go balls to the wall off every light and thrash it down the track every weekend, then NO.
But you drive it with care and keep up with the maint, then yes.
But with high CR, you wont be able to run pump gas much above 15psi.
I have an 8:1 setup and I can run 24psi on the street (at night) on 93.
mountaineerjeff
Well-known member
Quoting charmcity:
So im wondering if a fully built 9:1 comp motor could be a reliable long lasting motor if the boost is not turned all the way up. Not being an ass im just wondering because Im building one right now.
this is exactly what im shooting for.
So im wondering if a fully built 9:1 comp motor could be a reliable long lasting motor if the boost is not turned all the way up. Not being an ass im just wondering because Im building one right now.
this is exactly what im shooting for.
