BoostedAWD91
Well-known member
I agree, i have always like the VPC/GCC setup. it works great and its very easy to use. Yes its not the "best" tuning setup out there but i feel more safe using it than others
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Quoting number3:
FWIW that o ring setup never leaked for me. I could fill up that IC system with compressed air upto 30 psi before I wussed out and stop pumping it it for fear my test rig would let go. I would hold that for at least 5 mins. AZ climate must be very different and hard on seals than PA for you to have all these leaks in oil and air.
Fo you VPC haters that car ran strong and more importantly safe with it. I am not saying there are not better options now but even just a few years ago an AEM could not be trusted not to blown your engine sky high via a computer glitch.
Good luck Mike and good job keeping her sound.
Harry are you actually suggesting that the number of issues, one being the poor idle, that I'm having with this car is due to climate? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif That little rubber o ring is a joke and I have a very hard time believing that it held 30 psi. It wouldn't even hold 18 psi. Not to mention when I went to remove the sensor the nut on the inside of the pipe was not very tight and didn't have any loctite or teflon on the threads to insure it wouldn't eventually come loose and be sucked into the motor.
Climate doesn't have anything to do with it. It was a quick fix that yielded poor results. For someone that knows how to weld I'm surprised, and disappointed, that you didn't take an extra 5 minutes to weld on a bung so that you or the next owner wouldn't encounter any problems down the road.
FWIW that o ring setup never leaked for me. I could fill up that IC system with compressed air upto 30 psi before I wussed out and stop pumping it it for fear my test rig would let go. I would hold that for at least 5 mins. AZ climate must be very different and hard on seals than PA for you to have all these leaks in oil and air.
Fo you VPC haters that car ran strong and more importantly safe with it. I am not saying there are not better options now but even just a few years ago an AEM could not be trusted not to blown your engine sky high via a computer glitch.
Good luck Mike and good job keeping her sound.
Harry are you actually suggesting that the number of issues, one being the poor idle, that I'm having with this car is due to climate? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif That little rubber o ring is a joke and I have a very hard time believing that it held 30 psi. It wouldn't even hold 18 psi. Not to mention when I went to remove the sensor the nut on the inside of the pipe was not very tight and didn't have any loctite or teflon on the threads to insure it wouldn't eventually come loose and be sucked into the motor.
Climate doesn't have anything to do with it. It was a quick fix that yielded poor results. For someone that knows how to weld I'm surprised, and disappointed, that you didn't take an extra 5 minutes to weld on a bung so that you or the next owner wouldn't encounter any problems down the road.
There was loctite on it. I could have easy had it tapped it into the intake manifold (done it before) or welded a bung on the IC pipe (done it before) but you will find that the temp sensor threads can be fragile and gaul and can break off in the tapped threads or bung (making a mess of everything) so mounted it this way from my own experience. It allowed easy removal of the sensor when needed.
As for the o ring being a hack? What do you think seals the TB shaft or the injectors into the head or the compressor housing to the turbo body, BOVs, etc. (Yes, I know the OEM TB shaft doesn't use o rings but most rebuilt do and they work.)
Excuse me for thinking out loud as to why you are having these small problems I never had. I was only trying to help. I will say this and it is hard to believe... The rebuilt is going on 9 years old so maybe that might have more to do with it other than the very dry and very thin air of AZ. Just a thought.
BTW Many people have seen that car run during meets and dyno days and it would start, idle and run very well unless it was the first time it was started for the season after sitting for 4-5 months. Then it would take about 10-15 mins to warm up.
I am neither a hack or a liar so please lets not go down that road. If you were not and I misunderstood you, I appologize in advance.
Good luck
As for the o ring being a hack? What do you think seals the TB shaft or the injectors into the head or the compressor housing to the turbo body, BOVs, etc. (Yes, I know the OEM TB shaft doesn't use o rings but most rebuilt do and they work.)
Excuse me for thinking out loud as to why you are having these small problems I never had. I was only trying to help. I will say this and it is hard to believe... The rebuilt is going on 9 years old so maybe that might have more to do with it other than the very dry and very thin air of AZ. Just a thought.
BTW Many people have seen that car run during meets and dyno days and it would start, idle and run very well unless it was the first time it was started for the season after sitting for 4-5 months. Then it would take about 10-15 mins to warm up.
I am neither a hack or a liar so please lets not go down that road. If you were not and I misunderstood you, I appologize in advance.
Good luck
I appreciate you trying to help Harry and I'm not trying to point fingers or make claims as to who did what but the proof is clear as day. Since day one this car has been a complete basketcase and I'm shocked that you would take 20 grand from someone and feel comfortable with it after not disclosing a lot of issues that this car has. Its not like I didn't ask you, and I quote, "what issues does this car have that will need immediate attention?". Your answer was, none, followed up with the egt probe doesn't work. You knew I wanted to use this car as a daily driver.
So far, the transmission has leaked since it rolled off the truck. You never mentioned this to me and I can't believe that you would try and blame it on climate. Who builds a transmission that leaks after 1400 or 1700 miles? I don't know if this is from your doing or if you bought it that way from TRE but there are people out there that do not want to see major components of their vehicle leaking fluid.
The oil cooler that was on there leaked like crazy since the day the car arrived and you never mentioned that either, I wouldn't be surprised if it was used as the lines were in pretty bad shape. The ISC was bad which is why the motor didn't want to hold an idle and I found a whole crapload of masking tape inside the cold side of the IC end tank! Who welds an end tank on and doesn't remove the masking tape first? Thankfully over half of it was still stuck on cause that also could have been sucked into the motor causing a huge problem if the adhesive were to let go before I noticed it.
There was no loctite or teflon on the iat sensor threads, there was a small amount of rtv sealant around the base. Also, that short piece of ic pipe before the TB, looks like someone took a wire wheel to the inside of it and didn't bother to debur it or follow up with some fine sandpaper to eliminate the small metal fragments. I also noticed that the clamps were too big and so I see someone cut small pieces of coupler to take up the slack, not good for getting a tight seal and most of the couplers on the cold side have a lot of metal fragments imbedded in the inside of them. Why not just buy new/smaller clamps instead of taking a short cut?
I don't know who was working on this car but the more I dig into it the more it looks like they put it together blind-folded. If I sound like I am aggrevated its because I am. There was a lot of hype surrounding this car but it has yet to live up to it and all of the problems I am experiencing did not happen over night nor were they disclosed to me so I knew what I'd but up against.
So far, the transmission has leaked since it rolled off the truck. You never mentioned this to me and I can't believe that you would try and blame it on climate. Who builds a transmission that leaks after 1400 or 1700 miles? I don't know if this is from your doing or if you bought it that way from TRE but there are people out there that do not want to see major components of their vehicle leaking fluid.
The oil cooler that was on there leaked like crazy since the day the car arrived and you never mentioned that either, I wouldn't be surprised if it was used as the lines were in pretty bad shape. The ISC was bad which is why the motor didn't want to hold an idle and I found a whole crapload of masking tape inside the cold side of the IC end tank! Who welds an end tank on and doesn't remove the masking tape first? Thankfully over half of it was still stuck on cause that also could have been sucked into the motor causing a huge problem if the adhesive were to let go before I noticed it.
There was no loctite or teflon on the iat sensor threads, there was a small amount of rtv sealant around the base. Also, that short piece of ic pipe before the TB, looks like someone took a wire wheel to the inside of it and didn't bother to debur it or follow up with some fine sandpaper to eliminate the small metal fragments. I also noticed that the clamps were too big and so I see someone cut small pieces of coupler to take up the slack, not good for getting a tight seal and most of the couplers on the cold side have a lot of metal fragments imbedded in the inside of them. Why not just buy new/smaller clamps instead of taking a short cut?
I don't know who was working on this car but the more I dig into it the more it looks like they put it together blind-folded. If I sound like I am aggrevated its because I am. There was a lot of hype surrounding this car but it has yet to live up to it and all of the problems I am experiencing did not happen over night nor were they disclosed to me so I knew what I'd but up against.
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Just curious...is there any gas milage affect after put the VPC? I heard it run less than used to...I'm talking about alot less.
Quote:
is there any gas milage affect after put the VPC?
The biggest issue with a VPC is that it doesn't like big cams. If you run it with upgraded cams, the LOW TRIM is almost ALWAYS pegged at 81, as the ECU just can't lean it out enough. If anything hurts the gas mileage, that would be it.
But, other than that, I don't see any reason why the VPC would cause poor gas mileage. It removes restriction from the intake, and leans the WOT AFR, which will help efficiency and mpg. Most of the time our cars operate in closedloop, where the ECU keeps the AFR at 14.7:1. So as long as you tune the VPC so that your fueltrims stay around 100, your mpg should be virtually unchanged. IMHO, if you want to use a VPC, and are really concerned about mpg, keep the stock cams.
is there any gas milage affect after put the VPC?
The biggest issue with a VPC is that it doesn't like big cams. If you run it with upgraded cams, the LOW TRIM is almost ALWAYS pegged at 81, as the ECU just can't lean it out enough. If anything hurts the gas mileage, that would be it.
But, other than that, I don't see any reason why the VPC would cause poor gas mileage. It removes restriction from the intake, and leans the WOT AFR, which will help efficiency and mpg. Most of the time our cars operate in closedloop, where the ECU keeps the AFR at 14.7:1. So as long as you tune the VPC so that your fueltrims stay around 100, your mpg should be virtually unchanged. IMHO, if you want to use a VPC, and are really concerned about mpg, keep the stock cams.
BoostedAWD91
Well-known member
how big of cams are u talking that it wont compensate for real good? like 272's and bigger? it should be able to take 264's w/o ruining gas milage horribly right?
Nate
Well-known member
I drove around for years in the white Galant with 272s, a VPC, and an AFC, and that car idled perfectly, with the nice 272 lope. Granted, I did mostly highway driving, but that car averaged about 22-24mpg with some around town beating, and highway light throttle cruising. When on a highway trip (say from Pa to SC) averaging 75-80mph, it would easily get 30mpg.
Spend time tuning it, and they can work just fine for daily use, idle, and everything.
Spend time tuning it, and they can work just fine for daily use, idle, and everything.
Nate
Well-known member
"So far, the transmission has leaked since it rolled off the truck. You never mentioned this to me and I can't believe that you would try and blame it on climate. Who builds a transmission that leaks after 1400 or 1700 miles? I don't know if this is from your doing or if you bought it that way from TRE but there are people out there that do not want to see major components of their vehicle leaking fluid."
Mike, you can lay blame for the trans on me, I suppose. I broke the trans in the car when I was trying to road-tuning it; it grenaded 3rd gear at 6K rpms from the torque. I yanked the trans out of the car, rebuilt it, and reinstalled it. I do remember it leaking some fluid, but I then put in a new passenger's side axle seal, topped off the fluid, and it didn't appear to leak anything after driving it around for an hour, so I declared it fixed. I'm sure I'm not the only one, though, that's rebuilt a trans, and had it be fine, and als had it develop a leak later. It *does* happen, occasionally.
As for the car having issues once it arrived in Phoenix, and not running perfectly, I'm not that surprised, only because I had the same experience when I sold my Mirage Turbo to someone in Denver. It was also running a VPC/AFC combo, and ran (and idled) perfectly when it was here in PA. I drove it right before I loaded it onto the truck, and it ripped the tires loose in 3rd gear just like it always had the whole time I had it. I even loaded it onto the truck because the obese truck driver wasn't about to fit in the car or be able to get out of the car once it was on.
Fast forward one week to when the car arrived in Denver. Buyer calls me, tells me that the car not only doesn't run well, it will barely run at all. Won't idle, and when he gets it moving, turbo won't start spooling until 6K rpms. Buyer is understandably not happy, so I get in touch with Chris Plesko, and ask him to take a look at it. He plays with it, gets it to run better, but from the sounds of it the buyer just thought he wanted a fun daily driver, but knew he was buying a car with no AC, power steering, and a roll cage, so he ends up selling the car.
Next buyer of car calls me before purchasing car, I tell him everything I could possibly think about it, which is the same thing I did for the first buyer. He buys the car and drives it from Denver to WV. Once he gets out of the high elevations, car runs like ass. Buyer calls me, I give him the original VPC and AFC settings over the phone, and tell him not to hammer on it until he puts some 93 octane in the tank. I get a call later that he is thrilled with the way it runs, and it runs unbelievably well. Meanwhile, this is the same car that would barely run in Denver.
There are environmental factors there (meaning higher elevation in my case and this case) that we didn't have to deal with when the cars were here. I'm sorry, honestly, that you're having some trouble with 3 that Harry wasn't having, like idle quality, but how is Harry going to know if there's a problem with the car if it starts and idles when he turns the key, unless the CE light comes on?
Once again, Mike, I am sorry that you're having trouble with that car. I don't think Harry would sell it to you *knowing* that these issues were going to come up.
Mike, you can lay blame for the trans on me, I suppose. I broke the trans in the car when I was trying to road-tuning it; it grenaded 3rd gear at 6K rpms from the torque. I yanked the trans out of the car, rebuilt it, and reinstalled it. I do remember it leaking some fluid, but I then put in a new passenger's side axle seal, topped off the fluid, and it didn't appear to leak anything after driving it around for an hour, so I declared it fixed. I'm sure I'm not the only one, though, that's rebuilt a trans, and had it be fine, and als had it develop a leak later. It *does* happen, occasionally.
As for the car having issues once it arrived in Phoenix, and not running perfectly, I'm not that surprised, only because I had the same experience when I sold my Mirage Turbo to someone in Denver. It was also running a VPC/AFC combo, and ran (and idled) perfectly when it was here in PA. I drove it right before I loaded it onto the truck, and it ripped the tires loose in 3rd gear just like it always had the whole time I had it. I even loaded it onto the truck because the obese truck driver wasn't about to fit in the car or be able to get out of the car once it was on.
Fast forward one week to when the car arrived in Denver. Buyer calls me, tells me that the car not only doesn't run well, it will barely run at all. Won't idle, and when he gets it moving, turbo won't start spooling until 6K rpms. Buyer is understandably not happy, so I get in touch with Chris Plesko, and ask him to take a look at it. He plays with it, gets it to run better, but from the sounds of it the buyer just thought he wanted a fun daily driver, but knew he was buying a car with no AC, power steering, and a roll cage, so he ends up selling the car.
Next buyer of car calls me before purchasing car, I tell him everything I could possibly think about it, which is the same thing I did for the first buyer. He buys the car and drives it from Denver to WV. Once he gets out of the high elevations, car runs like ass. Buyer calls me, I give him the original VPC and AFC settings over the phone, and tell him not to hammer on it until he puts some 93 octane in the tank. I get a call later that he is thrilled with the way it runs, and it runs unbelievably well. Meanwhile, this is the same car that would barely run in Denver.
There are environmental factors there (meaning higher elevation in my case and this case) that we didn't have to deal with when the cars were here. I'm sorry, honestly, that you're having some trouble with 3 that Harry wasn't having, like idle quality, but how is Harry going to know if there's a problem with the car if it starts and idles when he turns the key, unless the CE light comes on?
Once again, Mike, I am sorry that you're having trouble with that car. I don't think Harry would sell it to you *knowing* that these issues were going to come up.
boostedinaz
Well-known member
I think what Mike is talking about is little things that can add up to headache problems. The TB didn't have a factory Mitsu gasket it was just slathered with RTV and was a pain in the ass to get off and clean up. Why not just order the correct gasket or make one out of gasket paper? So much went into the car yet little stuff like that was looked over.
Just my opinion.
Just my opinion.
tsk tsk tsk....
Quoting boostedinaz:
The TB didn't have a factory Mitsu gasket it was just slathered with RTV and was a pain in the ass to get off and clean up. Why not just order the correct gasket or make one out of gasket paper? So much went into the car yet little stuff like that was looked over.
Just my opinion.
The TB on #3 is oversized. A factory gasket would be too small and defeat the point of an enlarged TB. RTV is not that hard to peal off.
There are a lots and lots of things done to that car that someone looking from the outside in might not see why they were done that way. I am not going to defend each and every little thing anymore.
That car is far from stock and does take more effort to work on it. In some places it can be a royal PITA to work on (the downpipe for example) but it is a very clean car with lots of quality custom work on it and that is the price you pay.
The TB didn't have a factory Mitsu gasket it was just slathered with RTV and was a pain in the ass to get off and clean up. Why not just order the correct gasket or make one out of gasket paper? So much went into the car yet little stuff like that was looked over.
Just my opinion.
The TB on #3 is oversized. A factory gasket would be too small and defeat the point of an enlarged TB. RTV is not that hard to peal off.
There are a lots and lots of things done to that car that someone looking from the outside in might not see why they were done that way. I am not going to defend each and every little thing anymore.
That car is far from stock and does take more effort to work on it. In some places it can be a royal PITA to work on (the downpipe for example) but it is a very clean car with lots of quality custom work on it and that is the price you pay.
boostedinaz
Well-known member
^^^^
Over size or not the sheer amount of RTV was rediculious and it is not the right product for the job. We litterly had to pry the TB off the intake with a fairly large screwdriver and the RTV had made it's way in some of the TB and intake passages. Since there was so much excess it also made its way to the inside of the TB openeing and at some point some of that excess was sucked into the motor.
I took maybe 5 minutes with a pen and a razor blade to make a proper and perfectly fitting gasket that will come off with ease. Not to mention that it won't get into passges or motor since there is no excess to squeeze out.
Yeah there is alot of custom work done, but there is also some half ass work as well. Just becasue it is highly modifed is not an excuse to look over some of these little details.
Over size or not the sheer amount of RTV was rediculious and it is not the right product for the job. We litterly had to pry the TB off the intake with a fairly large screwdriver and the RTV had made it's way in some of the TB and intake passages. Since there was so much excess it also made its way to the inside of the TB openeing and at some point some of that excess was sucked into the motor.
I took maybe 5 minutes with a pen and a razor blade to make a proper and perfectly fitting gasket that will come off with ease. Not to mention that it won't get into passges or motor since there is no excess to squeeze out.
Yeah there is alot of custom work done, but there is also some half ass work as well. Just becasue it is highly modifed is not an excuse to look over some of these little details.
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BoostedAWD91
Well-known member
Harry built the car from ground up and did a amazing job on it. Obviously when ur dealing with a car that is that modified ur gonna run into issues and have to customize things to make them work. I just dont think it's right to be trashing Harry on little stupid things. Every car u buy that has been built by someone else, ur gonna find something that u would of done differently. Things are gonna break no matter how new they are, so its not fair to point fingers and say Harry did a half ass job on building the car. I have seen the car a few times in person and have seen it run and when it was in Pa, it ran great.Harry is a great guy and wouldn't rip u off or pass something on to you that was broke if he knew about it. Thats my 2 cents
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Quote:
I'm shocked that you would take 20 grand from someone
Dam! I need to take my ride to the dyno and then put a forsale sign on it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I'm shocked that you would take 20 grand from someone
Dam! I need to take my ride to the dyno and then put a forsale sign on it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Quoting BoostedAWD91:
Harry built the car from ground up and did a amazing job on it. Obviously when ur dealing with a car that is that modified ur gonna run into issues and have to customize things to make them work. I just dont think it's right to be trashing Harry on little stupid things. Every car u buy that has been built by someone else, ur gonna find something that u would of done differently. Things are gonna break no matter how new they are, so its not fair to point fingers and say Harry did a half ass job on building the car. I have seen the car a few times in person and have seen it run and when it was in Pa, it ran great.Harry is a great guy and wouldn't rip u off or pass something on to you that was broke if he knew about it. Thats my 2 cents
You seriously typed all that out, but can't use YOU and YOUR?!
Harry built the car from ground up and did a amazing job on it. Obviously when ur dealing with a car that is that modified ur gonna run into issues and have to customize things to make them work. I just dont think it's right to be trashing Harry on little stupid things. Every car u buy that has been built by someone else, ur gonna find something that u would of done differently. Things are gonna break no matter how new they are, so its not fair to point fingers and say Harry did a half ass job on building the car. I have seen the car a few times in person and have seen it run and when it was in Pa, it ran great.Harry is a great guy and wouldn't rip u off or pass something on to you that was broke if he knew about it. Thats my 2 cents
You seriously typed all that out, but can't use YOU and YOUR?!
Quoting BoostedAWD91:
Harry built the car from ground up and did a amazing job on it. Obviously when ur dealing with a car that is that modified ur gonna run into issues and have to customize things to make them work. I just dont think it's right to be trashing Harry on little stupid things. Every car u buy that has been built by someone else, ur gonna find something that u would of done differently. Things are gonna break no matter how new they are, so its not fair to point fingers and say Harry did a half ass job on building the car. I have seen the car a few times in person and have seen it run and when it was in Pa, it ran great.Harry is a great guy and wouldn't rip u off or pass something on to you that was broke if he knew about it. Thats my 2 cents
Stupid little things? Haha, yeah right. Do I need to post pictures of these stupid little things? Maybe then you can decide how stupid they really are. If Harry doesn't mind and he is confident in his work then I don't mind showing pics of my findings.
Darren, I didn't buy this car because it dynoed a particular amount of hp/tq. I bought it because in the photos there seemed to be a lot of attention to detail, so I figured it would not have been like buying from a typical dsmer that just slaps parts together. Unfortunately I am finding lots of cut corners and some things that just don't have a logical explanation.
Harry built the car from ground up and did a amazing job on it. Obviously when ur dealing with a car that is that modified ur gonna run into issues and have to customize things to make them work. I just dont think it's right to be trashing Harry on little stupid things. Every car u buy that has been built by someone else, ur gonna find something that u would of done differently. Things are gonna break no matter how new they are, so its not fair to point fingers and say Harry did a half ass job on building the car. I have seen the car a few times in person and have seen it run and when it was in Pa, it ran great.Harry is a great guy and wouldn't rip u off or pass something on to you that was broke if he knew about it. Thats my 2 cents
Stupid little things? Haha, yeah right. Do I need to post pictures of these stupid little things? Maybe then you can decide how stupid they really are. If Harry doesn't mind and he is confident in his work then I don't mind showing pics of my findings.
Darren, I didn't buy this car because it dynoed a particular amount of hp/tq. I bought it because in the photos there seemed to be a lot of attention to detail, so I figured it would not have been like buying from a typical dsmer that just slaps parts together. Unfortunately I am finding lots of cut corners and some things that just don't have a logical explanation.
iLLeffeKt vr-4
Well-known member
Did you see this car in person before you picked it up?
No because everyone on here speaks so highly of him. I trusted his reputation and I bought the mod list and pics. He marketed the car well but looking at the car in person and analyzing everything I've experieced with it so far I feel it was misrepresented.
Nothing I can do about it now. I wasn't going to mention it at all and was just going to keep on trucking and fixing all the problems but when Harry suggested that the problems I'm having are due to climate I got a bit agitated.
Nothing I can do about it now. I wasn't going to mention it at all and was just going to keep on trucking and fixing all the problems but when Harry suggested that the problems I'm having are due to climate I got a bit agitated.
