BoV suggestions (flutter dump w/ stock BOV) - Resolved w/ Dodge Mod

[EfiniX]

I met with EHMotorsports yesterday and we knocked out a dodge mod BoV in about 3 hours. The result of the mod was interesting. I actually noticed I was still getting a bit of flutter at higher boost levels. This behavior abruptly stopped when I blew my recirculation hose clean off the intake. Venting to atmosphere resulted in no flutter whatsoever. My BoV hose has a nasty bend in it, the result of using too-short of a connection. I'm guessing the tight bend the hose had to make to get into the intake pipe (right after the MAF, of course) was creating just enough back-pressure to flutter the valve. I'm going to fix this today with some new hose and report back. I'm guessing this issue goes with a new dump hose.

My stock BoV


You can see the stock valve was crushed.


I noticed the VR4 board was open on Evan's shop computer. I would say his suggestion of doing the Dodge Mod was excellent advice!


Cleaned, sand-blasted, rinsed and ready for modding. Evan had a stock BoV already sitting around, so we Dodge-modded that valve and I gave him my valve to mod later.




I decided to use a cap bolt so we wouldn't have to worry about filling or filing to get a hose to seal.



Evan has a lathe, which makes drilling out the cap bolt easy and precise. I've seen people with a vice and a hand drill and I have to imagine you break a few bits and a few bolts before getting it right.


He lathed the nipple on free-hand. Definitely something he's done before.


Now to drill-out and tap the valve.




Sealing off the stock intake pressure hole


Tapping the turbo outlet


The new valve painted and installed


Turbo outlet line installed


And of course, proof that it is, indeed, blowing off /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[prove_it]

Nice, yea I suppose a crappy vent hose would slow the pressure release. Good call. Good to hear it's sorted out too.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

You should ditch that crusty looking MBC and just use ECMlink instead.

 

[prove_it]

^agreed. Besides the amount of time it takes to get a good boost map set-up, links boost control is really nice. I'm using the stock BCS and it works great.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

I had mine dialed in after about 15 min. Really not much to it.

 

[EHmotorsports]

ya its a good idea. why not if the option is available. I will be reworking the wiring and cleaning the bay of my car soon. Taking the old Greddy controller out and running link boost control. one less thing that clutters up the engine bay and inside of my car.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

The thing I like the most is everything is consolidated with ECMlink. I can adjust boost at the same time with everything else, rather than have to screw with a MBC under the hood or adjust another controller somewhere. I know most guys just set the boost and leave it, so the point could be moot, but I like my laptop being the one stop shop for everything. In addition, you can't get the adjustability out of a MBC that you can with ECMlink. You can set the duty cycle on the solenoid to do whatever you want; from boost spikes to launch control. It's a really nice feature overall, and requires very little to get it up and working.

 

[prove_it]

I friggin love the 26lb spike when my cyclone opens. Then it falls to keep the baby 16g from blowing up.

 

[coyotes]

Once again some nicely done work by Evan. I just need to open a bar tab with him and drop my car off.

 

[MDK87]

I also prefer the 1G BOV over aftermarket stuff. I've used a crushed 1G BOV before which seemed to work well, but I'm having trouble trying to understand what this mod does? Is the idea that pressure at the compressor outlet will be slightly higher and therefore assist in keeping the valve seated?
As the passage in the housing cannot be enlarged, I wonder if you'd see a better result by tapping a new (larger) threaded port into the upper part of the housing (pic below).

I wasn't aware that ECMlink had an output available to switch a BOV. That's quite handy. Maybe you could use that to switch a solenoid and close the compressor feed on throttle lift-off while just running the usual boost/vac line to the diaphragm to allow easier opening of the valve..?

Just throwing ideas out there for evaluation.. Maybe someone has done it before lol

 

[EHmotorsports]

The dodge mod adds a port to the lower portion of the BOV for quicker response when the TB is fully closed. so it just adds the port at the flange instead of where your dot is located. same vac port.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting MDK87:
I also prefer the 1G BOV over aftermarket stuff. I've used a crushed 1G BOV before which seemed to work well, but I'm having trouble trying to understand what this mod does? Is the idea that pressure at the compressor outlet will be slightly higher and therefore assist in keeping the valve seated?
As the passage in the housing cannot be enlarged, I wonder if you'd see a better result by tapping a new (larger) threaded port into the upper part of the housing (pic below).

I wasn't aware that ECMlink had an output available to switch a BOV. That's quite handy. Maybe you could use that to switch a solenoid and close the compressor feed on throttle lift-off while just running the usual boost/vac line to the diaphragm to allow easier opening of the valve..?

Just throwing ideas out there for evaluation.. Maybe someone has done it before lol





Here's an in depth explanation of how the Dodge mod works. click

 

[EfiniX]

Quoting GSTwithPSI:
You should ditch that crusty looking MBC and just use ECMlink instead.



After buying a new motor, transmission, and other bits and pieces, I'm on toy probation until I buy my house /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif No big deal, but with the car tuned and running great, no need to play with the MBC. I figure when I start back up on the car, I'll move to SD and fuel system stuff. Until then, little bits here and there.

 

[EfiniX]

Quoting EHmotorsports:
ya its a good idea. why not if the option is available. I will be reworking the wiring and cleaning the bay of my car soon. Taking the old Greddy controller out and running link boost control. one less thing that clutters up the engine bay and inside of my car.



Great! get it dialed on your car, then we can talk about doing it with mine since you'll have the process down!

 

[EfiniX]

UPDATE:

Flutter after the dodge mod. then a pop, followed by no flutter. As shown in the last photo on page 1, the recirculation hose had popped off. No surprise, I suppose, since it was a hack-job to begin with. A chopped piece of blue coolant host with the stock intake pipe rubber hose clamped on the end. The issue was that the hack-job hose created a nasty crimp in the already narrow stock bit of hose. That hose had an elbow shape and it was bent even more, restricting the flow a bit.

My theory at this point is that it was restricted enough to throttle the BoV at higher boost levels, leading to the flutter. When it blew itself off, it effectively removed the restriction, and ta-da, no flutter anymore.

I spent some time at the autoparts store today sourcing a single hose that had the length and curve I was looking for (cough). I got it back to my car (yay for owning a motorcycle on a hot day), cut it to the right length, and got it hooked up. It's looking much better, although I haven't had a chance to drive it around and validate it's actually solving the problem.

More to come...

 

[EfiniX]

Seems good so far. No real room to boost on the drive to work, but I did bounce over 20PSI at one point with no noticeable flutter. In fact, there was hardly any sound at all (finally).

The new hose is much wider than the old one /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[EfiniX]

I just hammered it. spiked to 23psi, then settled to 21. No flutter, quiet blow-off, and fast fast fast

 

[prove_it]

But now it stalls.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[4thStroke]

Not all that glitters is gold. Although I was able to dial in and create a perfect boost curve with ECMLink, you could audibly hear the wastegate "chop" from the solenoid opening and closing through the open dump. I've seen this before and the cars pulled good. However, my experience was that the car did not seem to pull clean. I've talked to others who experienced the same. I tried different ways of trying to dampen the change in flow (or the pulse) in the vacuum lines, but I had no luck. I went back to my inline perrin unit. The perrin spikes less and holds better than my hallman, unexpectedly. The MBC doesn't give the curve I want, but the system works better.

 

[EHmotorsports]

do you think running a stiffer WG spring would help with the chop you were experiencing? or a smaller WG?