Wideband in stock location poll

[cheekychimp]

Quoting James:
A lot of mixed answers from some knowledgable members.



James,

I'm not one to throw money away generally but what have you got to lose by trying the stock location other than a wideband sensor which isn't THAT expensive? Why not install it in the stock location and try it? If it works out then it was quick and easy and you can report back with real world experience that it worked. If it does destroy the sensor then again report back with real world experience and THEN do whatever is necessary to install it further back.

Someone made a valid point above about the sensor operating range, commenting that if your temps at the housing are hot enough to damage the sensor you quite likely have other issues. My experience in Hong Kong (and it may be different over there) is that 'ricers' and other inexperienced individuals often tend to install stuff that they have no idea how to use because (a) it looks good or (b) they think it makes THEM look good. There isn't much point installing a wideband unless you know how to use it or even bother to read it. I appreciate it isn't always the case but I wouldn't mind betting SOME individuals were running a wideband and were still running too lean or running race fuel regularly at the track (which will kill sensors just as fast).

Some of the guys on the Link forum are extremely knowledgeable and they rarely tolerate bullshit. I am not saying they are never wrong but if they have been doing this for a while without issues I wouldn't mind betting that there are other factors at play if people are really experiencing issues with sensors dieing prematurely. I'd also like to see what what brand of sensors are giving issues. I cannot say that Bosch or whatever brands are necessarily better than cheaper alternatives, but it still does my brain in that people spend hundreds of bucks on a quality wideband kit and then use a shitty sensor with it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Paul.

 

[James]

The problem with that theory is that I got my Wideband from a good friend at a good price. So with it being a used sensor it could fail tomorrow even with correct installation.

I put it almost in line with the firewall because that was the spot closest to 20inches that I could get good fitment from The top of the pipe. And any excuse to use my welder I'll take

I hate the excuse " well the instruction say this". If we followed instructions we would still be in the 12s for 1/4 mile time. My FSM doesn't say it's ok to use a 2g MAF or 550cc injectors, or to manually change the boost, but we do it anyways.

 

[PreskitVR4]

I say yes. Putting it 30" back like AEM says just kills sensors faster. I have put countless cars on the dyno, and a very good friend of mine comediively races an evo, and his sensor life is triple in stock location as it was at recommended distance.

 

[turbowop]

The Bosch LSU4.2 is like $55 from PLX. Pretty damn cheap considering the prices for other parts on this car.

 

[raptorWagon]

FWIW, AEM/Innovate/PLX all use the same Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor, so it's not going to really matter what each brand's instructions say. Stock location worked fine for me.

 

[JNR]

Is this replacing the oem O2 sensor? If not, it's easy to weld on a bung wherever you choose and you can always plug off the oem O2 location if you're not going to use it. I agree that if there is a particular recommendation (don't know, just based on what others are saying), then go with that.

I have a secondary O2 bung on the downpipe, but it's not being used right now, although I was going to use it for 'tuning' purposes (keeping my oem for ECU and this one strictly for wideband to get readings, since I don't have a piggyback or plan on getting a standalone, etc.)

So, check with the manufacturer on your specific unit (not just the O2 sensor, but whatever it is you need this wideband for) you intend to use and get the correct info, rather than basing it on hearsay. Just because something "works", doesn't mean it's optimum or correct.

 

[DynastyLCD]

Quoting raptorreed:
FWIW, AEM/Innovate/PLX all use the same Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor, so it's not going to really matter what each brand's instructions say. Stock location worked fine for me.



the sensor may be the same, however, the connectors vary. my friend had an '05 Jetta GLi with a 1.8T, fouled out his o2 sensor one night and limped to my house to fix it, and low and behold, my old PLX unit was the same exact sensor as his front o2 that failed. the plug was oval with one flat end. the AEM sensor has that locking tab, and also is a rectangle connector.

most of newer Nissan's use the AEM style sensor as their front o2 now. and the 1.8T was using the PLX style o2 sensor as their front o2. so if you guys have dealer connections somewhere, it may be cheaper than whatever vendor can sell you a replacement. just a thought.

edit: i voted no. i've used the wideband in the downpipe with good luck, and will continue to. as long as there isn't any exhaust leaks, it's going to be an accurate reading. i considered putting the wideband in the o2 housing, i may try it in the future just to see for myself if it runs any different. for now, it works just fine, i'll keep it that way.

 

[mitsuturbo]

Quoting cheekychimp:
Quoting James:
A lot of mixed answers from some knowledgable members.



James,

I'm not one to throw money away generally
Paul.



You bought the wrong car, mister.

 

[JNR]

Well, least he didn't buy some of the new(er) throw away cars they seem to be promoting these days...modifying any car is a losing proposition and if you do it about the $$$, you're in the wrong hobby, ha ha...the more expensive cars that actually hold value or appreciate, well it's all relative, as you don't want to go cheap/chinese parts that so many vr-4 and esp. dsm guys seem to slap on their cars and hack up (inexperience, laziness, not sure what the reasoning is).

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

Quoting James:


I hate the excuse " well the instruction say this". If we followed instructions we would still be in the 12s for 1/4 mile time. My FSM doesn't say it's ok to use a 2g MAF or 550cc injectors, or to manually change the boost, but we do it anyways.



theres a big difference between instructions for a comsumers car and instructions for a racing/tuning part...

 

[mikus]

ECMLink guys would tell you that from a data standpoint, best to install it back and also keep the stock o2 sensor.

This makes it easy to remove/reinstall the WB sensor at any time, literally 5min job which is a plus

 

[jnava]

^--- That's exactly what happened when I sold my AEM wb.

 

[turbowop]

Quoting mikus:
ECMLink guys would tell you that from a data standpoint, best to install it back and also keep the stock o2 sensor.

This makes it easy to remove/reinstall the WB sensor at any time, literally 5min job which is a plus



Werd. Like I said, my car is NB in stock location with WB downstream. I just voted "yes" because I'm not opposed to doing it after seeing that the ECMlink founders haven't had problems with a WB mounted in the o2 housing. I don't think it's the big evil that it's been made out to be is all. In the end, it's a $50 sensor. NBD.

 

[ghostinthevr4]

I have the AEM wideband the original one and I can tell you from experience that it kinda of doesn't matter make a big difference. Some say if it's in the stock location it reads faster, I really couldn't tell it did seem like it could've read faster but not by a large margin. I highly doubt it kill sensor life I always say I'm going to change my wideband but I haven't yet. This is with some abuse and switching between 91 and E85.

Running it in the stock location is the ideal place to run it, if its an AEM it won't shortend the sensor's life. Run it in the stock location and simulate narrowband to free up a sensor, I'll be doing that soon to log fuel pressure. The more data the better.

 

[Barnes]

Funny thing is it would be very easy to see if the distance makes a difference. Just put two wideband sensors in the car, one in the stock location and one in a rear location. Then measure the voltage difference between the two on a time scale. If there is a voltage difference significant enough to change A/R measurements, it would probably be obvious. Although I don't know the voltage vs. A/R conversion of the top of my head. So I don't know if 0.1 dV or 0.001 dV would be considered significant.

Also, as far as sensor life and manufacturer instructions are concerned, I think everyone is missing a big point. An O2 sensor is an engineered component. That means an engineer or team of engineers designed it. Now, when the engineers recommend that you do not exceed X temperature, or other criteria, that doesn't mean the sensor WILL fail at X. Engineers almost always overdesign things (factor of safety) so they have some head room. So the o2 sensor probably works fine at X+25%, but maybe it reduces the life of the sensor. Or maybe it doesn't, and it's still within the added margin the engineers added to the sensor. The reason they don't specific the sensor's range at the very end of it's calculated capability is so fewer sensors fail prematurely. That doesn't mean they won't work outside the specified range.

But like Turbowop said, it's a $50 sensor. So if it really DOES supply a better signal, AND it's easier to deal with. What does it matter, it's just $50. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

 

[mitsuturbo]

IDK about you, but $50 is like.. 7 decent bottles of beer, man. That's serious business.

 

[Barnes]

Well, yeah, but these car's aren't cheap. And in the relative scheme of things with these cars, $50 isn't much. Of course that depends if you sensor last 1000 miles, or 10000 miles.

 

[mitsuturbo]

At the current rate i'm putting miles on my car, 1000 miles is satisfactory. I've had it 2 years, and put ~40 miles on it, total. I should be good for 50 years at this rate. Why worry about where the WB sensor is located anyhow? These cars spend FAR more time on jackstands than they do running and driving. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[JNR]

Lol, if you think these cars aren't cheap, better never get into anything newer or cars that're actually worth anything.

 

[James]

*knock on wood* my car has only been on jack stands for 3 hours since I've owned it.