What is the best 272 cam out there?

[turbowop]

That's a lot of backpressure if it's holding open valves, no? That just goes to show how inefficient that turbo was using the MHI exhaust housing. While I'm sure going to stiffer springs helped, I'm guessing a newer tech turbo with a higher flowing exhaust housing would have cured that as well. Interesting though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[marvinmadman]

You answered it. I was wondering if you had a restrictive exhaust. Obviously stiffer springs would've helped that, but that would've just masked the actual problem.

 

[marvinmadman]

Wop and I just became best friends

 

[marvinmadman]

Also. Donniekak, which year model or exact version FP Red this was?

 

[donniekak]

The billet hta76. It would blow open a 16psi waste gate at around 28 psi. Using the top port of the gate to run more boost would end up floating valves.

It doesn't take much back pressure to reduce the effective seat pressure to next to nothing on stock springs. Stock seat pressure is around 60 lbs. figure the exhaust valve is around 1in^2. So even at a decent drive pressure to boost ratio of 1.5 30 psi of boost would be 45 psi exhaust map, which brings the seat pressure to 15 lbs. That seat pressure isn't going to work.

 

[turbowop]

That's pretty crazy, and something I've never thought about. While I've never worried about screwing up my valves due to running 272's on stock springs, the performance aspect of losing boost pressure due to them makes me take notice. Maybe someday I'll actually have a stock parts failure and be forced to rebuild and upgrade, and be able to note any differences.

 

[trendsetter]

it sounds like the hks cams are pretty outdated and something that was designed in this century would be a much better option. more modern profiles tend to be more aggressive so they would probably need the upgraded springs. but i would bet you end up with more power under the curve over a lazier cam that doesnt need upgraded springs.

 

[thomcasey]

The upgraded springs are recommended due to them being over 20 years old. I would never think of running a 22 yr old valvetrain over 7k with stock cams. 272's are a good cam but do affect street drivability somewhat with how it effects low-end power, but you can make up for it (somewhat) with higher compression.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

I don't see how a cam profile can be outdated. What do we know about the 4G63 today that we didn't know 20 years ago in regard to cam design? It's not about the cam being outdated, IMO, it's about selecting the right cam for your application. Until you get into variable valve timing and such, you're just trying to get to cams with lobes that let you best use your engine's output/powerband for a given application. The HKS 272 (or 264) can cover a wide range of applications and perform well all around. That's why it's a popular choice with many people. It's not too extreme, yet it will yield good performance in a variety of applications.

Sure, I'd say there's a best cam for every application. But, it's up to the builder to select that cam based on the build, and what the car is being built for. There's no one size fits all, just like there's no drop in cam. Selecting the proper cam takes planning, and getting that cam to perform optimally takes proper setup and tuning. If you're not taking every aspect of your build and its intended use into consideration when you're selecting cams, you're doing it wrong.

There is no "best 272 cam out there"...Because what is best for you is probably not best for me or the next guy. The best cam out there is the one that works optimally in each specific application.

 

[turbowop]

Quoting thomcasey:
272's are a good cam but do affect street drivability somewhat with how it effects low-end power, but you can make up for it (somewhat) with higher compression.



503 had stock cams and an Evo3-16g. Having owned 503 and 1051 at the same time, I'd take the "laggy" power 1051 puts down anyday over 503. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

This day in age, 272's are pretty mild. Much like the 20g was once considered a "race only" turbo, people run much larger stuff now on the street. Times have changed. But the HKS272 is still a good cam that makes power dropped in straight up.

 

[trendsetter]

Quoting GSTwithPSI:
I don't see how a cam profile can be outdated. What do we know about the 4G63 today that we didn't know 20 years ago in regard to cam design?


Im not sure how to even respond to that.
do you really think that cam design has not improved in the last 20 years? do you think there is nothing more to a camshaft than a duration and lift number?
there is a reason the comp cams catalog is almost 300 pages and there are hundreds of lobe profiles available.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting trendsetter:
Im not sure how to even respond to that.
do you really think that cam design has not improved in the last 20 years? do you think there is nothing more to a camshaft than a duration and lift number?
there is a reason the comp cams catalog is almost 300 pages and there are hundreds of lobe profiles available.



You seem to be confusing selecting the proper camshaft design with actual camshaft design. Like I said, there are an immense number of variables that should be taken into account when choosing a camshaft. The same thing goes with camshaft design; each cam is designed to do a certain thing well. The simplicity of the camshaft is also its downfall, since no one lobe design is optimal for everything. That's exactly why the HKS 272 is a great camshaft, because its lobe design is a good compromise between "street and strip". This is also the entire reason many manufacturers now use camshafts in conjunction with some form of variable valve timing, to allow a cam to perform optimally across a wider range of conditions.

A camshaft lobe is just a ramp. It doesn't get much simpler than that. If you can explain to me how ramp design has technologically advanced over the last 20 years, I'd love to hear it. The HKS cam isn't outdated, and it never will be. It's designed to perform a certain way just like every camshaft made before it, and after it, has, and always will be.

 

[4Grim]

I am running a set of DKS 272 (Yes you read that right..DKS) cams from FFWD DKS camshafts . 2 big reasons I decided to go with them...

-They are really affordable
-Couple local DSM guys made VERY good power with them for more than 5+ years at the HP goals I want.

Their website is pretty detailed about them..but they are regrinds to emulate HKS cams specs. I can't give you a full review of them from my personal setup since the car isn't tuned correctly. I basically did my research and asked alot of questions with the local DSM owners who are running them...and the consensus are all positive experiences.