what else besides VR4

[4thStroke]

You have to be particular about the mod path you choose if you want to put emphasis on torque. Small intake manifold, 264 camshafts, small(er) turbo, etc.

You will never get that "right now" torque that the V8s put out.

AWD pulls just fine after the first ten feet, just like a normal car, for the most part. Eventually, you will get numb to the power. I was cruising around at 530whp and thought something might have been wrong with my car because it just didnt feel like it used to. Nothing was wrong.

4WD is usually switchable from RWD. Front and rear wheels rotate at the same rate. AWD allows the front and rear to move independantly of eachother. Some people weld their center diff., at this point, the car is pretty much full time 4WD. 4WD will bind up when turning tight and high traction surfaces where as AWD doesnt.

 

[DR1665]

Quoting jazz4001:
now i have heard about that 4wd not losing traction off the line, but what about after the first ten feet? my interest isn't so much beating someone else, but just to personally feel power, not whiplash...


I've never been in a monster GVR4, but I have driven a friends twincharged 1G Talon. It makes about 450lb-ft from 2000rpm and on (about 600awhp). Even that wasn't as abrupt as a RWD V8. Seems to me that anything RWD with a lot of torque will either break the rears loose or want to lift the front end. These AWD cars feel more like a slingshot.

With a good clutch and solid launch, the AWD gets the jump off the line and, an instant later, the turbo comes into its own and you're gone. The compromise you have to make is, if you want good acceleration off the line, you want a smaller turbo, but that will limit you top end. For example, the stock 14b on my car, if I launch it just right, the car is on-boost right away and pulls nice and strong. Nothing outrageous, but quick enough that you know it's working. Past about 5000rpm, however (on the way to a 7000rpm redline), you can feel it sort of run out of legs. The Evo III 16G is very popular because it pulls longer and packs more punch throughout the range.

Quoting jazz4001:

how would you mod the VR4 different to get more emphasis on torque?


Without opening up the mill, I'd start with a 2.5" exhaust from turbine to tailpipe to keep gas velocities up in the low- to mid-range. I'd probably step up to the E316G, supporting fuel mods, Jackal (DSmap), a simple FMIC setup from an SRT4, Evo, or Starion, and a clutch with some balls. Actually, this is the route I plan on taking with my would-be rally car, as I don't want to flatten out the torque curve as much as possible in the sub-5000rpm range. While I'm starting out with trail runs and the odd rallyx event, I want to be able to leave the car in second gear be able to rotate through the corners and steer with the throttle to maintain as much speed as possible without having to yank the e-brake to break the rear loose.

Quoting jazz4001:

a little off topic, whats the difference between 4WD and AWD?


IMHO:
AWD = always on, non-adjustable designed for all weather use.
4WD = 4H+4L, possibly selectable, possible locking diffs, designed for all terrain use.

 

I stand partially corrected............nice link with the comparison. Every subi around here is packing a mitsu turbo. The wrx's are 14b's and the Sti's are 16g's. Maybee they've all upgraded idk. None of them can touch my 2g gsx right now. I've never lined up the gvr4 yet with them.
Anyway 4thstroke, thanks for the knowledge.

 

If you want torque, a Subaru Forester XT with the stock TD04 turbo is a great choice combined with the fact that the engine is 2.5 liters instead of 2.0.

The stock TD04 turbo VERY quickly runs out of steam...but torque and instant power are it's specialty.

I still prefer the Mitsu though....but for 0-60...man!

If you go to www.subaruforester.org and search hard enough, there is a guy running 0-60 times in the 3 second range. Of course this isn't with the stock turbo. I believe that the 04-05 engines are lower compression and better suited to boost...but that the 06-08's have the better transmission.

 

thank you dr1665, good info!

speaking of ru foresters... my friend is picking up a 2002 forester S, w/130k miles for 3000 bucks. the guys just wants to rid himself of it, seeing how he leaves for the navy in 2 weeks... what type of fancies could be done to it for a low cost? could it handle a small turbo without a rebuild?

 

[Muskrat]

I have a friend with a Forester, saw him run a 12.5 in the quarter. I think he's running the equivalent of an FP Green on a stock block. Not sure what boost setting.

 

Quoting jazz4001:
thank you dr1665, good info!

speaking of ru foresters... my friend is picking up a 2002 forester S, w/130k miles for 3000 bucks. the guys just wants to rid himself of it, seeing how he leaves for the navy in 2 weeks... what type of fancies could be done to it for a low cost? could it handle a small turbo without a rebuild?



www.subaruforester.org

 

[GVR-4]

Something to consider on Subaru flat 4 engines is that there are two cylinder banks. That means four cams, two head gaskets, one long timing belt with two tensioners and more exhaust plumbing including an up pipe. Basically, more complexity when doing maintenance/repairs.

 

I was warned about that. I guess that is a big point to consider.

 

[thedsmguy]

Go buy a awd civic wagon.. Or a awd volvo. or bmw x car.. dont come on a gvr4 forum and say they dont make any torque... Thats just silly.

 

[yeti]

Isn't the garage defeat gvr4 doing a 1.2-seconds-0-60' at least a 1.8-seconds 0-60'

Quoting blkchr91:
If you want torque, a Subaru Forester XT with the stock TD04 turbo is a great choice combined with the fact that the engine is 2.5 liters instead of 2.0.

The stock TD04 turbo VERY quickly runs out of steam...but torque and instant power are it's specialty.

I still prefer the Mitsu though....but for 0-60...man!

If you go to www.subaruforester.org and search hard enough, there is a guy running 0-60 times in the 3 second range. Of course this isn't with the stock turbo. I believe that the 04-05 engines are lower compression and better suited to boost...but that the 06-08's have the better transmission.






1.2- 0'-60' or 1.8- 0'-60'

 

[Ian M]

What kind of car are you coming from? What I'm getting at is finding out what your idea of "Torquey" is. It's all relative.

If you are used to a NA honda a 12-13 sec GVR4 with light mods will knock your socks off,where if you are used to a 3000lb V8 car with a healty big block a 12 second Galant will feel like a fat turd.

When my car had a 14b with low buck mods (boost controller,exhaust,2.25 pipes and starquest IC- with stock 450 injectors,MAS etc) it wouldn't pull trees down off idlem (not many 4 bangers will...),but around 2500-2800 it would snap to life and slam your head back in the head rest. No problem spinning all four on a first gear roll on,or mashing it turning out of a parking lot and going broadside with ease. It ran high 12's at 105 at my elevation,so for the money spent it pulled pretty good. With the 20g-especially on a smooth or dust road, it's snappy and will blow all four off and bang off the revlimiter instantly in first gear and is a blast on wet road in 2nd and 3rd when it does the same thing. I don't think you could ask for much more fun out of a low buck mildly modified car.

Short of a old school RWD V8,I don't think there is any thing that has a bigger bang for the buck and as practical as a GVR4. Plus,they don't sound as lousy as a Subaru. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif