Timing belt problem

[NickDromez]

so im bringing this back since my tbelt skipped. i know why it skipped, the pulley side was not tight enough. this time around im doing it right, but its a huge pain in the ass! im not sure if its a common problem or anything but the belts that i have have 153 teeth and are both from Fastnal. idk if they are giving me the wrong belts or somthing but everytime i try to put the belt on it always seems to be 1/2 a tooth off and i can not get any of the timing marks to line up perfectly. i can get the cams, and crank to be perfect but then the oil pump will be off. i can get the crank and oil pump lined up but not the cams. etc. am i doing something wrong or is it just damn near impossible to get it all lined up???

right now i did get it on, however im not sure if its right. i started it up but it feels like its missing hella badly. i am considering getting the balance shaft removal kit just so i dont have to line the oilpump sprocket up perfectly. should i just do this?

 

[turbowop]

Are you turning the exhaust cam clockwise a couple degrees while threading the new belt over the sprockets? That cam likes to retard a couple degrees when the belt is pulled off.

 

[pauleyman]

The marks either line up or they don't. There is a sure fire way to make sure the belt is on correctly. Follow the specs in the factory service manual. Some parts can be skipped IF and ONLY IF you know what you're doing. You learn as you go. To me the most important parts are as follows

Once the belt is on and tensioned rotate it over by hand 5 full turns of the crank. Within 5 full turns all marks should come around and you can line up all 5 (assuming you still have balance shafts). At this point you have removed all the slack from the idle side and all marks should be dead on, no exceptions. If it isn't do it again.
At this point you can also check protrusion of the hydraulic tensioner. It's either in spec or it isn't. There is no close enough. If it isn't right do it again. I don't care if you have to take the belt off 10 times it's either right or it isn't. I lost count on timing belts after about 50. There is no good enough, there is no almost lined up, there is no cheat.

If you're seeing marks that aren't quite right it's because you have slack in the idle side (non tension side). This is why they tell you to rotate the motor over.
If you're off at all after doing what I described you'll be off full teeth. A good trick is to use a chalk mark on the belt and whatever gear you are on. If you were off a tooth on that gear you move a tooth and line up the the other marks. If you were to do this before you remove the belt in the first place it's difficult to put it back on a tooth off anywhere.

If you're sharp you will have figured out that the slack can be removed easily just by turning the crank a little bit. Once the belt is on it doesn't matter what position it's in when you set the hydraulic tensioner. As I said before once the belt is on rotate the motor and check both the marks and the protrusion of the tensioner. Practice makes perfect. I did my first tbelt 2 decades ago and I did it 8 times before I got it right. BTW that 8 times took me about 30 minutes. If you have any problems let us know.

 

[Barnes]

The VFAQ addresses this EXACT issue. Read the damn VFAQ again, and again, and again until you understand the whole thing.

 

[JCorbo25]

I did my first t-belt job 3 times before I got it right. It is imperative that you rotate the engine 5 times and line up all marks with proper tension.

Just study the VFAQ and follow it line by line. I found my mistakes just looking through the VFAQ over and over again.

 

[beaner]

Why are you guys rotating it 5 times? I always did 6. I remember if the b.shafts are deleted less rotations are needed (4?), but I always did 6 to verify it's all lined up.

But yeah, like said above. Get the belt on there, PROPERLY do the tensioner. Meaning slowly let it out, wait 15 min, check the gap. If it's wrong, redo it. It always takes me a few times. Don't rotate sh*t until the tensioner is correct AND the gears are lined properly. Turn the engine the opposite way 1/4 turn, put it back. Verify the gears are still lined up and the tensioner is within spec. Then turn it over 6x. Everything should line up again and the tensioner should still be within spec.

 

[turbowop]

If the marks are already lined up, it will take exactly six rotations for them to line back up again. I think he's just saying that if the marks aren't lined up yet, they should be within five rotations.

 

[pauleyman]

You guys are going to make me look it up. Is it six?

 

[pauleyman]

I'll leave it to somebody else to look up. All I can find is my 97 book which says 2 revolutions. I actually haven't done it by the book in so long I don't remember. Point is you rotate the motor around until they all line up again then check protrusion. Manual also says wait 15 min before you check it. I can tell you this whatever I measured immediately after setting it was the same 15 min later. So....if it's not right immediately, it's not going to be right in 15 min either most likely. It isn't hard but it is specific and a little tedious.

 

[turbowop]

It's six. I'd bet 1051 on it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[AWDPower]

You need to wait the 15 minutes because the auto tensioner plunger can come out a bit farther as it takes up the slack in the belt. That said, I always check the gap on the tensioner right away, before the 15 mintues, to see if it even has a chance of being right. If the tensioner is already at or past the max allowed extension, it's not going to retract as it sits, just do it again. If the gap is very small, I know it's wrong and needs to be set again. I've found that if the gap is at the small end of the spec intitially, it usually ends up okay. Keep in mind this is with a new belt, a used belt can be different. I've done enough that I can usually set a new belt on the first try, but I always check anyway. I do believe that it does matter what position the belt is in when you set the tension. The position of the exhaust cam affects the amount of tension on the belt between the exhaust sprocket and crank sprocket, which should affect the pressure pushing back on the auto tensioner. That said, I've never tried installing a belt in another position.

 

[4wheelsqueal]

The cam timing tools that have been for sale on here by CKA make doing timing belt swaps a breeze. Get both, though. One holds the cams in the correct position and the second compresses the tensioner. Did timing belt swaps on two cars in thirty minutes with these tools. Highly recommend!

 

[jepherz]

Of course it is six. The cams rotate 1/2 the speed of the crank. How you can come up with an odd number is beyond me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif