Staggered wheels on awd...

The evo that ran different size tires was a Bozz Speed Evo 6. I think that they did this to allow the rear tires to come out more like a RWD car would do. The transmission was smelling really bad after some track time if I recall correctly, however I am not sure whether this is related to the tires or it making like 600 claimed HP. I think they had a clutch type Cusco center diff, not the viscus center like we have. This may have allowed them to run tires that were a different size.

Prove it, you really should prove something worth while before you start running your mouth. You and kenny kline should make babies together, that'd be something special.

 

[atc250r]

The bottom line is that everyone here can talk this and that about it. The only way to know for sure that it won't damage the center diff is to measure the circumference of the front tires mounted on the wheels versus the back tires mounted on their respective wheels. If there is a difference then don't do it. Many years ago we had a 3KGTVR4 with a major trans problem come into the one dealer I worked at. It had much wider wheels and tires in the rear than in the front. It looked hot at hell but we all dismissed the problem as being due to the wheel and tire package. When I got it onto my lift we measured the circumference and the front to rear was dead on to less than 1/4". Whoever set it up knew what they were doing and it wasn't the wheels and tires that caused the issue.

John

 

Quoting Rausch:
Quote:

Oh hi there, I'm the OP and my name is Jay.

Hi Jay, this is a nice thread you have here.


Let's look at what we know for sure: Mitsu, and pretty much anyone else in the known world recommends that tires are replaced on AWD cars as a set, not in pairs. We have all heard the "Don't mix tires" statements as well. Let's just assume that there is something behind these statements. The question now becomes how finite do we need to be?

Race cars can run pretty much whatever they want, within reason, as they are designed with a given limited lifespan. In this case I would imagine that a relatively small difference would not be catastrophic, but the further you go the more the VCU will most likely hate you. I would image that this can be extrapolated to a point of failure. Unfortunately, I really have no idea what the limit really is. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Edit: click Little VCU reading for your life. For fun..




The replace all tires as a set idea was because of tread depth I thought. That would throw off the diameter equation and could "potentially" harm the drive line. Now I rode around for 3 years on es100s and sumitomo's combined and they had competely different sidewalls and pattern. It was when the car was daily driven and no issues presented themselves then.

Jon, I bet that 600 hp road race car has a hot gearbox after that kind of racing! I just think that if anything broke on it, that car would kind of be a bad example. The street cars I have seen doing it haven't have any catastrophes. My car is driven a couple times a month and not very hard on the street. If it goes to a track it will be towed. I'll do the string test then I'll roll around on the set for a few days and see if I feel anything different at all. I doubt I will but that would be a good tester.

Here is a nice awd is250 that did the same width tire and the string test. 8.5 up front and 9.5 in the back

 

Quoting atc250r:
The bottom line is that everyone here can talk this and that about it. The only way to know for sure that it won't damage the center diff is to measure the circumference of the front tires mounted on the wheels versus the back tires mounted on their respective wheels. If there is a difference then don't do it. Many years ago we had a 3KGTVR4 with a major trans problem come into the one dealer I worked at. It had much wider wheels and tires in the rear than in the front. It looked hot at hell but we all dismissed the problem as being due to the wheel and tire package. When I got it onto my lift we measured the circumference and the front to rear was dead on to less than 1/4". Whoever set it up knew what they were doing and it wasn't the wheels and tires that caused the issue.

John



And thank you John for that insight. I have seen guys with setups like that on 3kgt's and they put so much money into them to get it right. I'll make sure these are right and if they aren't then the Volks go back on. A big hp 3kgt with proper staggered wheels and a tranny problem is really just a high hp Mitsu with a tranny problem.

 

[kartorium]

Jay, is your trans really nice, or built at all or just a stocker?

If its a stocker just put the freaking wheels and tires on and run it. Just make sure you have AAA. This is not your daily driver is it?

I don't see why there is so much fuss and contemplating going on here, just do it. There are other members on this board that run staggered setups and IIRC they didn't have problems and were doing the same sizes as you are trying to use.

 

^Who else uses staggered on this board?

No its not my daily, it's a semi built tranny. The reason I haven't just done it is that the car is getting painted and I was looking at the other wheels in the garage and thinking about throwing them on but wanted to get some input first. If the car was just here they would have been on by now from the responses I have gotten.

 

[Rausch]

Quote:
The replace all tires as a set idea was because of tread depth I thought. That would throw off the diameter equation and could "potentially" harm the drive line. Now I rode around for 3 years on es100s and sumitomo's combined and they had competely different sidewalls and pattern. It was when the car was daily driven and no issues presented themselves then.

That sir, is exactly my point. I don't think the minimal difference (~1/4") is going to have a catastrophic effect with a VCU.

That should also basically answer your question though too. ( Or at least negate the brunt of your concern) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Edit: Furthering the answer in regards to the original question. I can't see how a different sized contact patch F/R would be any different that say, driving around in the rain at worst. I honestly can't really think of a good reason why that would have an effect on the driveline, other than grip running out at one end more than the other, which is already not uncommon in these cars.

 

[KT]

Jay,

To get your measurements as accurate as possible, measure the circumference with the car on the ground. Mark a line on the tire, say at the valve stem. With the valve stem a the 6 o'clock position, mark the ground/road/driveway or flood waters rushing by your car (BTW, where are all the peoples in Hotlanta shooting at cops and helicopters from rooftops?). Then roll forward one revolution, remark the ground and measure the distance between marks.

Different weights on the corners will change the "roll out."

I would then change the pressures to get the measurements equal.

Once you have everything adjusted, make sure you have AAA and extra center diff.

Either way, enjoy rollin' dirty on your new "fancy" wheels.

 

[kartorium]

Quoting crankwalk:
^Who else uses staggered on this board?

No its not my daily, it's a semi built tranny. The reason I haven't just done it is that the car is getting painted and I was looking at the other wheels in the garage and thinking about throwing them on but wanted to get some input first. If the car was just here they would have been on by now from the responses I have gotten.



sorry, I did a search and found he was running FWD at the time. I'd still say give it a shot though.

click

If you have a bunch of money in the trans it would make me a bit more cautious, but I'd say give it a shot. The car looks hot with a stagger.

BTW, good luck with this current set of changes, I can't wait to see it finished!!

 

[EMX5636]

When I bought my old GSX it had two different tires on it. Same size, but the rears were a bit over 1/4" taller due to a different carcass design I guess. I drove the car with those for the first probably 8K miles until I could afford to buy a set of wheels and 4 matching tires. The trans is still alive today in my GF's sisters 1g. I did beat the car pretty good during and 15k miles after the new wheels/tires went on.

Personally, do the math, if they are damn close in rolling diameter, go for it. I think it would look pretty bad ass!

 

[prove_it]

I have always been told not to stagger awd drive tires, hence my last post. I've never seen a daily driven staggered fit awd. Some good points have been made here.

Been thinking about it I have a question, if you take two identical tires, exact same rolling diameter put one tire on a 7" wide rim and the other on a 8" rim and mount them on a car, would one tire wear faster due to the difference in tire stretch?
Would you have to constantly check your wear to make sure that they aren't wearing differently and thus greating a problem a few thousand miles later?

 

[prove_it]

Just thought of another question, if you were using a four gear spider for a center diff instead of a VCD, could you run with different sized tires front and back without damaging the trans?

 

Ok thanks for all the info guys I think I'm going to try it out this weekend. The te37s I have are 16 x8 and I want to see how the car looks with 17's. With Galants naturally seeming to have more space to fill in the rear I am hoping this will remedy the problem. And if it doesn't then I guess the old wheels will go back on. Here are the other wheels which I know are a love it or hate it choice anyway:

Front

Rear

Stretch isn't that noticeable

 

Quoting prove_it:
I have always been told not to stagger awd drive tires, hence my last post. I've never seen a daily driven staggered fit awd. Some good points have been made here.

Been thinking about it I have a question, if you take two identical tires, exact same rolling diameter put one tire on a 7" wide rim and the other on a 8" rim and mount them on a car, would one tire wear faster due to the difference in tire stretch?
Would you have to constantly check your wear to make sure that they aren't wearing differently and thus greating a problem a few thousand miles later?



You don't see daily driven staggered fit awd because most are done for the track or the wheels are pretty expensive and they have a daily. I would be the second choice. Constaantly checking tire wear? The car gets driven less than 1000 miles a year. Not worried about that.

 

Baller wheels man. I like them a lot.

 

[JNR]

Also, speaking of street, problem with different wheels and/or tires front to rear is you can't rotate them.

 

[prove_it]

so pretty much in conclusion we've learned today that staggering looks good, however is best left for the track only.

Next question: Running a wider rim and stretching the tire like that basically increases the slip angle of the tire, or does it decrease it? I'm under the assumption that it increases it.

 

^That's what you have learned? Why should it be left just for the track? Did you read the same thread I did?

 

[iceman69510]

Just some additional info for those who may not know- Tire manufacturers provide specs for their tires, usually measured at one rim size, but there is a recommended width range as well. It pays to research their websites for these numbers when deciding on tire/wheel packages.

And Jay, if you pay attention to the diameter and play with tire pressures a little bit, I think you will be fine as long as you keep the same size tire.

 

[boostedinaz]

Quoting prove_it:
so pretty much in conclusion we've learned today that staggering looks good, however is best left for the track only.




No that is not at all what we have learned. Did you read anything in this thread at all?

Staggered can be done if the wheels widths aren't way off and the over all rollout of the tire is pretty close.