someone asked for a picture of a car rolled with a roll cage fitted,ok it was a soft field but you can not compromise on safety,get it done properly by someone who knows what there doing.
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Roll cage
- Thread starter galant412
- Start date
someone asked for a picture of a car rolled with a roll cage fitted,ok it was a soft field but you can not compromise on safety,get it done properly by someone who knows what there doing.
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Digit
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Are bolt in cages legal for anything like scca racing or anything like that? You can't use any bolts for anything cage related in sanctioned drag racing except for swing outs.
Click for fact Quote:
2008 NHRA Rulebook, General Regulations 4:10 ROLL BARS: All roll bars must be within 6" of the rear, or side, of the driver's head, extend in height at least 3" above the driver's helmet with driver in normal driving position (this is next to impossible in a Galant VR4 BTW) and be at least as wide as the driver's shoulders or within 1" of the driver's door. Roll bar must be adequately supported or cross-braced to prevent forward or lateral collapse. Rear braces must be of the same diameter and wall thickness as the roll bar and intersect the roll bar at a point not more than 5" from the top of the roll bar. Crossbar and rear braces must be welded to main hoop. Side-bar must be included on driver's side and must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and elbow. Swing-out sidebar permitted. All roll bars must have in their construction a cross bar for seat bracing and as the shoulder harness attachment point. Cross bar must be installed no more than 4" below, and not above, the driver's shoulders or to the side bar. All vehicles with OEM frame must have roll bar welded or bolted to frame; installation of frame connectors on unibody cars does not constitute a frame; therefore it is not necessary to have the roll bar attached to the frame. Unibody cars with stock floor and firewall (wheeltubs permitted) may attach roll bar with 6-inch x 6-inch x 0.125-inch (1/8") steel plates on top and bottom of floor bolted together with at least four 3/8-inch (0.375") diameter bolts and nuts, or weld main hoop to rocker sill area with 0.125-inch (1/8") reinforcing plates, with plates welded completely. All 4130 chromoly tube welding must be done by approved TIG heliarc process; mild steel welding must be done by approved MIG wire feed or approved TIG heliarc process. Welding must be free of slag and porosity. Any grinding of welds prohibited.
Bolt in cage means it is bolted to the car but also means the whole cage is pre welded and can be bolted together so you can install and remove the whole cage with no welding. Which as I already stated is not nhra legal. You can sandwhich bolt the cage mounting plates but the full cage/bar still has to be one solid welded piece. Therefor if you wanted to remove it you could unbolt it from the car but would have to still cut the cage apart to get it out of the car. I forgot about NHRA allowing the mounting plates to be sandwhich bolted together as most people don't do it and it is not as strong as welding to the body. It's an old rule that has been grandfathered throughout the years for people with classic cars who don't want to have to weld 6"x6" steel plates all over their cars and "ruin" it. Most chassis shops will not install cages this way.
Digit
Quote:
Are bolt in cages legal for anything like scca racing or anything like that? You can't use any bolts for anything cage related in sanctioned drag racing except for swing outs.
Click for fact Quote:
2008 NHRA Rulebook, General Regulations 4:10 ROLL BARS: All roll bars must be within 6" of the rear, or side, of the driver's head, extend in height at least 3" above the driver's helmet with driver in normal driving position (this is next to impossible in a Galant VR4 BTW) and be at least as wide as the driver's shoulders or within 1" of the driver's door. Roll bar must be adequately supported or cross-braced to prevent forward or lateral collapse. Rear braces must be of the same diameter and wall thickness as the roll bar and intersect the roll bar at a point not more than 5" from the top of the roll bar. Crossbar and rear braces must be welded to main hoop. Side-bar must be included on driver's side and must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and elbow. Swing-out sidebar permitted. All roll bars must have in their construction a cross bar for seat bracing and as the shoulder harness attachment point. Cross bar must be installed no more than 4" below, and not above, the driver's shoulders or to the side bar. All vehicles with OEM frame must have roll bar welded or bolted to frame; installation of frame connectors on unibody cars does not constitute a frame; therefore it is not necessary to have the roll bar attached to the frame. Unibody cars with stock floor and firewall (wheeltubs permitted) may attach roll bar with 6-inch x 6-inch x 0.125-inch (1/8") steel plates on top and bottom of floor bolted together with at least four 3/8-inch (0.375") diameter bolts and nuts, or weld main hoop to rocker sill area with 0.125-inch (1/8") reinforcing plates, with plates welded completely. All 4130 chromoly tube welding must be done by approved TIG heliarc process; mild steel welding must be done by approved MIG wire feed or approved TIG heliarc process. Welding must be free of slag and porosity. Any grinding of welds prohibited.
Bolt in cage means it is bolted to the car but also means the whole cage is pre welded and can be bolted together so you can install and remove the whole cage with no welding. Which as I already stated is not nhra legal. You can sandwhich bolt the cage mounting plates but the full cage/bar still has to be one solid welded piece. Therefor if you wanted to remove it you could unbolt it from the car but would have to still cut the cage apart to get it out of the car. I forgot about NHRA allowing the mounting plates to be sandwhich bolted together as most people don't do it and it is not as strong as welding to the body. It's an old rule that has been grandfathered throughout the years for people with classic cars who don't want to have to weld 6"x6" steel plates all over their cars and "ruin" it. Most chassis shops will not install cages this way.
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Are you (also) referring to the cross-pieces that some people make a 'bolt on', for access in and out?
Interesting you can't do any finishing (grinding, sanding) on the welds; makes sense, but just something you don't think about, I guess...
Interesting you can't do any finishing (grinding, sanding) on the welds; makes sense, but just something you don't think about, I guess...
No, those are called swing outs which are legal to 8.50 ET's.
As was I. I thought it was a pretty standard knowledge that a bolt in cage refers to a cage that is completely bolt in and out, no welding required.
Those door panels kick ass BTW, send me some!
Those door panels kick ass BTW, send me some!
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atc250r
Staff member
I'm guessing that's an RS? The adjustable height seat belts are an interesting difference too.
The bolt in cage is a fairly common find for the JDM cars but IIRC they interfere with the glove box on USDM models due to the LHD.
John
The bolt in cage is a fairly common find for the JDM cars but IIRC they interfere with the glove box on USDM models due to the LHD.
John
turbowop
Well-known member
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Did you find that thing at the local dump? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif Lot of garbage on the ground. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
Did you find that thing at the local dump? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif Lot of garbage on the ground. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/uhh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
Looks like south side Chi-town. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Nice Cage Harry. Make sure the new owner gets it re-certified at the right time so it doesn't expire.
When a bolt in cage is referred to in the industry it is meant that the whole cage is bolt in and out and requires no welding what so ever. It is bolted together INside the car and to the car.
A cage that is bolted to the chassis/body is still a weld IN cage even though it it not welded to the car.
The type of the cage when it comes to the name has to deal with how the cage is assembled not with how it is mounted. Hence a bolt in cage is completely bolt together no welding required and a weld in cage is a completely welded together cage. How a weld in cage is mounted to the actual chassis/car itself has nothing to do with the name. So simply put no one calls a welded in cage that is bolted onto the chassis instead of welded a "bolt on" cage.
This is the industry standard.
Thank you for clearing it up for those who might not be up to date with the industry lingo as it could seem to cause some confusion to those who are not well versed on cages. Just like when people say 6point cages or 10pt roll bars.
When a bolt in cage is referred to in the industry it is meant that the whole cage is bolt in and out and requires no welding what so ever. It is bolted together INside the car and to the car.
A cage that is bolted to the chassis/body is still a weld IN cage even though it it not welded to the car.
The type of the cage when it comes to the name has to deal with how the cage is assembled not with how it is mounted. Hence a bolt in cage is completely bolt together no welding required and a weld in cage is a completely welded together cage. How a weld in cage is mounted to the actual chassis/car itself has nothing to do with the name. So simply put no one calls a welded in cage that is bolted onto the chassis instead of welded a "bolt on" cage.
This is the industry standard.
Thank you for clearing it up for those who might not be up to date with the industry lingo as it could seem to cause some confusion to those who are not well versed on cages. Just like when people say 6point cages or 10pt roll bars.
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Quoting kaiju:
here are a couple shots of mine
Just as a note some people think that a bolt in cage is better then no cage. There is a lot of controversy over this and I happen to be on the side of the fence that this statement is not true. If it is possible for you I would suggest using that cage as a jig for someone to make you a weld in cage.
I hate to even make this statement but if you are going to use that cage please make sure you are using the strongest bolts possible for it to try to make it as "strong" as possible. Check them often also as vibrations from driving and such could loosen them.
here are a couple shots of mine
Just as a note some people think that a bolt in cage is better then no cage. There is a lot of controversy over this and I happen to be on the side of the fence that this statement is not true. If it is possible for you I would suggest using that cage as a jig for someone to make you a weld in cage.
I hate to even make this statement but if you are going to use that cage please make sure you are using the strongest bolts possible for it to try to make it as "strong" as possible. Check them often also as vibrations from driving and such could loosen them.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
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I hate to even make this statement but if you are going to use that cage please make sure you are using the strongest bolts possible for it to try to make it as "strong" as possible. Check them often also as vibrations from driving and such could loosen them.
i have to buy new chassis bolts and i'm having the areas where it bolts to the chassis replaced with fresh metal
I hate to even make this statement but if you are going to use that cage please make sure you are using the strongest bolts possible for it to try to make it as "strong" as possible. Check them often also as vibrations from driving and such could loosen them.
i have to buy new chassis bolts and i'm having the areas where it bolts to the chassis replaced with fresh metal
Brianawd
Well-known member
Here in the next few weeks I am going to give Art Morrison a call to see what it would cost for there 8 point roll bar. Going off there wep page they don't charge any more to custom bent a roll bar.
click
So going off there prices it would be around $260 for mild steel and $520 for 4130 Tubing. At those prices you can't go wrong.
click
So going off there prices it would be around $260 for mild steel and $520 for 4130 Tubing. At those prices you can't go wrong.
Let us know how that works out for you.
I don't see how they can make any money charging $260 for a custom, already notched ready to weld in cage that they have not done so they would have to find a car to get everything right and a high quality tight cage as a final result.
I thought for a second maybe my quote wasn't good enough, then I realized I quoted you for what I charge for 4130 not MS. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I don't see how they can make any money charging $260 for a custom, already notched ready to weld in cage that they have not done so they would have to find a car to get everything right and a high quality tight cage as a final result.
I thought for a second maybe my quote wasn't good enough, then I realized I quoted you for what I charge for 4130 not MS. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
