Replacing front wheel studs

[GSTwithPSI]

I can't speak to how well Timken (or any other brand) bearings work on other vehicle models. I can say from experience they have worked flawlessly in every Mitsubishi application I've installed them in, though. And, I've done bearings on a few different Mitsubishi cars over the years, my Galant being the most recent. I've never had a wheel bearing failure after replacing one, and I've used a few different brands, to include Timken. I quickly did a Google search for DSMs that had issues with Timken bearings, just to see if maybe I'm just lucky. Didn't see much in the way of search results.

The only experience I have with Timken bearings outside of DSMs was when I was a field service tech for Raymond. At the time, all of our lift trucks used Timken bearings for load wheels, as well as for the rollers on the fork carriages. Again, I never saw a bearing failure that was due to a defective bearing. I saw tons of failures due to improper installation, improper maintenance and overloading...but never because the bearing was bad out of the box. That's just my personal experience, though.

 

[89Patches]

I have used cheap NAPA wheel bearings in my car before and I lap/autox my car on a regular basis. They lasted as long as my current OE replacements /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Honestly I think that 90% of wheel bearings fail do to improper torque of the axle nuts. Most people just tighten them by hand (or impact) and think that's good or they over torque...

I torque the axle nuts to 155ft/lbs and all wheel bearings last the around the same time with me, Be it cheap to OE.

 

[turbowop]

I've never seen the castle nut slots line up with the hole in the axles for the cotter pins at the perfect torque setting. I just go as tight as I can with a breaker bar to line that stuff up.

I have Timkens in the front of my car. Not because I'm cheap, but because that's all that was available locally and I didn't feel like waiting a week+ to wait for OE bearings. So far so good.

 

[prove_it]

Aftermarket parts do use the same materials. What makes the difference is the specifications used. Some companies use more precise specs than others. That's the difference. Along with that is the type and quality grease used.

By the way, those comebacks are from various makes and models. I've done 100's of bearings in the last decade. Never said they were junk, or inferior. Said I have had issues with Timken. Percentage wise, it's not a large number, yet it's enough that as a professional, I don't recommend them. Mostly to cover my butt, but also to give a better repair to my customers.

Again, I love how people will buy the cheapest tie rods, bearings, etc yet spend huge money on turbos, injectors, and such. Not pointing fingers, but just saying.

Oh, and I'm not the only pro that thinks that way. So no, my install and abilities are just fine.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

I bet if I mic'd out both bearings, they would be built to exactly the same specifications. If you want, I'll pull out my micrometer and do that for you, Ryan. I don't think the specifications would differ at all, and I simply don't agree with what you're saying. As far as the grease goes, you can repack the bearing with whatever you want. You don't have to rely on the grease that comes in the bearing, and I make it a point to change it out with a good synthetic on every wheel bearing I do. If you use a synthetic, name brand, extreme pressure, high temp grease...you'll be fine. That's what I use when I pack wheel bearings, and have never seen grease cause a failure. If you have been installing the bearing right out of the box, that may account for some of your comebacks, IMO.

In regard to installing the bearing, I wasn't trying to say you don't know what you're doing. I simply meant that I'd examine external factors before blaming the bearing itself, as a 50% failure rate for any one part (especially a wheel bearing) is pretty rare.

As far as cheaping out on maintenance items while simultaneously blowing your load on performance items, I totally agree that's not good practice. I'm not sure who (if anyone) that's referring to specifically, but I don't recommend things to people that I wouldn't/haven't done myself. If you can afford to buy every possible part at the dealer and that gives give you piece of mind, then by all means, do it. For everyone else, there are places to cut costs without sacrificing safety, longevity and performance. Sure, I would recommend OEM parts in some cases, but not always. If there's something that works just as good and is half the price, I'll pick that option almost every time.

If someone considers that cutting corners, then so be it. I consider that being smart with my budget and build. To each his own.

 

[prove_it]

Not going to argue, I was merely stating my experiences and opinions sir.

 

[matt92vr4]

Question...maybe we can agree on it lol. With the axles out, how much wiggle is acceptable in the hub? With my axles in, there is no wiggle and everything spins nice. With them out, I can wiggle the hub a little.

 

[prove_it]

That's normal. The axle is what holds the bearing together. There will be play. Now if the play is like an inch, then that's not good. That's why if you ever need to move the car with axles out, you need something to apply pressure to keep it assembled.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

The bearings I just installed were tight in the hub before they were ever installed on the car, no play whatsoever. The bearing being press fit into the hub is what retains the races, and sandwiches the bearing in place between them. In addition, there is a snap ring on the back side of the hub that will keep the bearing from coming out if the press fit fails. There's no need to do anything if you move the car without the axles installed. When the axle shaft is torqued down, that may squeeze the bearing together, but that shouldn't be what holds the bearing together IMO. If the bearing is only tight with the axle installed, then your bearing may be shot, or is not seated properly in the hub. The bearing should already be tight in the hub without the axle installed.

This was my experience after replacing both front wheel bearings on my Galant within the last 6 months.

 

[prove_it]

Then explain why axle nut torque is so important?

 

[vr4play]

The axle is definitely what holds these bearings together. I keep extra outer axle joints to install into my hubs to be able to push the car in and out of the shop without messing up the bearings. I have had the hubs start to come apart when pushing without having the axle joints in place.

 

[turbowop]

Agreed. The front wheel bearings are sloppy as f*** without the axles installed when trying to push a car around a shop.

 

[coyotes]

Confusing sh*t. I'm replacing one of the wheel bearings on my 5 lug swap's front knuckle because it has play. The other side does not. So it is supposed to have play? Why not the other one then?

 

[prove_it]

With the axle installed and nut at proper torque the spindle should not have play in it. Without the axle installed, it will have some play due to the outer bearing races being loose.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting prove_it:
Then explain why axle nut torque is so important?



Because if you over torque it, you'll bind the bearings which causes accelerated wear.

Quoting turbowop:
Agreed. The front wheel bearings are sloppy as f*** without the axles installed when trying to push a car around a shop.


You're implying the weight of the vehicle being pushed around is enough to dislodge a press fit race? What's the point of it being press fit into the hub then? I can see the axle keeping the bearing in place during operation, but just pushing the car around in the garage? The bearing may be a bit looser than with the axle installed, but not sloppy as f***, or even noticeably loose IMO.

All I know is the bearings on my car are tight with and without the axle installed.

 

[turbowop]

I'm just telling you what I've seen from experience on many DSMs and GVR4s. I've never cared enough to look at why it's like this. I just know it is. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

 

[EHmotorsports]

Quoting GSTwithPSI:
Quoting prove_it:
Then explain why axle nut torque is so important?



Because if you over torque it, you'll bind the bearings which causes accelerated wear.

Quoting turbowop:
Agreed. The front wheel bearings are sloppy as f*** without the axles installed when trying to push a car around a shop.


You're implying the weight of the vehicle being pushed around is enough to dislodge a press fit race? What's the point of it being press fit into the hub then? I can see the axle keeping the bearing in place during operation, but just pushing the car around in the garage? The bearing may be a bit looser than with the axle installed, but not sloppy as f***, or even noticeably loose IMO.

All I know is the bearings on my car are tight with and without the axle installed.



roll the car a bit and let us know how tight it is without an axle. the bearing race will loosen and potentially ruin the bearing.

 

[89Mirageman]

Agreed. If you push your car around enough without the axles in it the wheel can actually fall off completely. Hard to believe but it happens. I had my brother tow one of my colts like 50 feet once with his 4 wheeler and I didn't think anything about it. Once we got it to where I wanted it I noticed the wheel/hub was barely holding on. A few more feet and I would have wrecked a car with no drive train in it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting EHmotorsports:
roll the car a bit and let us know how tight it is without an axle. the bearing race will loosen and potentially ruin the bearing.



I have, dozens of times. During the course of my car being apart over 9 months or so, I've rolled it around, in, and out of my garage tons of times without axles in either side. The wheel never fell off and the bearing never got sloppy, so maybe I got lucky /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

The OP asked if the bearing should be tight with the axle out. I say yes, because that's my experience. Obviously, you'll need the axle in place when you operate the vehicle, in order to keep the bearing/hub from being dislodged under operational loads. When you press in a new bearing though, it is tight in the knuckle without the axle (at least the last 3 I did were). After pressing in the new bearing, the the knuckle gets installed on the car, and the bearing should still be tight before, and after the axle is installed. I think we can all agree the bearing doesn't loosen up with the axle installed, yes?

Fast forward to the next time you remove the axle. The car is sitting, at rest. You remove the axle, and what? The bearing is magically loose now? That can only happen if: 1) The race or hub somehow dislodged in the knuckle during the 10 min it took you to remove the axle or 2) The bearing is worn out. When you press fit a bearing in the knuckle, that bitch fits tight. It doesn't flop around all willy-nilly. If nothing changes from the time you pressed in the bearing, till the time you remove the axle again, then I don't see how the bearing gets sloppy as f*** after simply removing the axle.

Sure, if you go towing the car around town without an axle, I'd expect the bearing or hub to move around. Additionally, maybe if the knuckle and hub have seen a few bearings over time, the tolerances in the knuckle and around the hub shaft will be looser...and just a little push around the garage may be enough to loosen up the race. It's highly possible, that's just not what happened to me. At rest, the bearing should be tight with or without the axle in my experience. This logic makes sense in my head, which is why I said what I said. If that's wrong, then cool.

 

[89Mirageman]

I guess others were just throwing the idea out there in case he had pushed the car in and out of the shop a few times. That maybe the hub was working its way out and there was nothing wrong with the bearings. But I agree, if all you do is jack the car up and remove the axle there should be very little to no play at all. Unless the bearing is bad like mentioned above.