Rebuild Lasted 600 MIles

[dsm10o0]

Quoting mitsuturbo:
Please tell me you didn't use some oil pump other than OEM. Especially topline or something similar.

I've seen this happen more than once with other than OEM oil pumps. Looked almost exactly like this, too.



The oil pump is an OEM mitsu.

 

[HHIVR4]

Pull the valve cover off and post some pics.If thats an ebay oil cap the nut could have fell into the head and jammed it up.

 

[acidrumz]

Sucks to see a fresh rebuilt gone out the door. Something seized from the shredded TB.

 

[grocery_getter]

Oil pump related problem? Feel the oil pump sprocket. Directly: seized sprocket caused belt to snap. Indirectly: oil pump problem somehow -> lack of lubrication to the top end will cause camshaft or camshafts to seized and belt to snap.

 

[grocery_getter]

Quoting rmontalvo23:
Quoting Terry Posten:
Sure looks like something seized by the way belt is ripped. Are the camshafts able to spin? Did a timing bearing seize?

Sucks to see.


If I turn the key the engine spins just fine but of course with zero compression. So the cams are moving around just fine in the head. No knocking noises or anything like that from the top of the motor.



Your cams aren't spinning. Your belt is snapped.

Remove the valve cover, take out the roller rocker by prying them out (if you have no idea how to do this looked up vfaq) this is easy and take less than 30 minutes. You don't have to remove the lifters. And try to do this before you remove any of the cam caps to see what the cams do as it was in the installed condition. Now with the roller rockers out, you should be able to spin the individual cam with your hand on the cam gear. Does it spin easily and without any resistance or rough feels? It'll either spin smoothly, or with gritty feeling or totally seized. Now take out one of the cam caps. Flip it and look at the bearing surface. Is that cam cap smooth or full of marks? take out the rest of the cam caps. What was the cam caps torqued to during assembly?

 

[rmontalvo23]

SO here is the update guys. Grocery Getter was right. The cams are seized completely. I can't move them even a 1/4 inch.
I tried to remove the head on Monday but ran into a big problem. The two head bolts on the timing belt side are not coming off. Actually most of the head bolts were very difficult to break lose. Now I am only using a 3/8 socket with a T Bar so I'm hoping an air gun will pop them lose. But I've never had such a hard time loosening head bolts before.

I broke 3 Craftsman 10mm Sockets and 1 auto parts store 10mm knock off, all in the span of 2 hours (had to run back to Sears to exchange). From what I've been told breaking a craftsman socket is not an easy thing to do. So I'm thinking one of two things. 1: They were over tightened, maybe the torque wrench that was used hasn't been calibrated in a while. 2: The belt breaking and having the valves hit pistons jammed the head up some what causing the bolts to strain.

So at this point I still need to remove the head. Been looking on Craigslist for an air compressor so I can give it another go this weekend. Any NorCal dudes out there with a compressor want to come by? I'll have all you can eat pizza and beer. After I pull the head I will remove the side engine cover and check the oil pump gears and such to see if it's locked up. I've already put a bid on a ported cylinder head with stainless valves. So that should be here next week.

 

[gramkrakr89]

Sorry to hear about all of your trouble... In my experience (relatively little, but still) loosening the head bolts starting at the ends and working inward (backward from the install torque pattern) keeps the head from lifting one end and pinning the other end head bolts with more tensile strain than they were torqued with... maybe I'm just superstitious, I don't know. Ive run across some stubborn ones, but none have failed to break loose with a little extra effort.

I've also never tried a 3/8" drive to break head bolts loose... never had a problem with a 1/2" breaker bar and a quality hex drive.

Removing the oil pump for complete inspection, regardless of whether or not it is seized, is recommended. If both cams are seized/galled, oil starvation is the most probable cause. This can be a foreshadowing of other, less catastrophic oil-starvation damage, so be on the lookout.

People here tend to be good with helping out when they can... that's one reason why this is such a great place. Hopefully someone is nearby who can spare the time.

Good luck!

 

[beaner]

Is this the original head or from a 1g 7bolt?

 

[dammitjim]

Maybe you'd have better luck with an impact socket. You can get them cheap from Harbor Freight.

 

[FlyingEagle]

10mm with 1/2" input. You can shock the studs with a hammer and punch (or air hammer) if you really want to get into it, but I figure you will be good with a larger socket ie 1/2"
As stated in the above post, a Harbour Freight/Princess Auto (for us Canucks) should stock that I figure. Get a 1/2" quality breaker bar behind is also for proper leverage.

 

[Vman911]

I did a rebuild when I first got my VR4. I used a aftermarket OIL PUMP stub. (parts dinasour one) It was the solid one with no oil groove in it...Well car started up fine idled for 10-15 min checked for leaks all was ok and drove the car. 8/10ths of a mile down the road the oil pump locked up and sheared off timing sprocket. Bent 12 valves. That was a good learning leason. Get the mitsu factory stub for 12.00.

Which stub do you have in oil pump? I can post pics of my stub thats on my wall of shame.

 

[Jason G.]

I've broken many of those craftsman 10mm hex sockets trying to get stubborn head bolts off and an impact gun didn't budge them either.
Do those sockets still neck down in size compared to the 10mm end?

I ended up finding a socket that was 10mm the whole length of the hex key.
Edit: it broke like yours did at the socket, but the hex portion was still good.
I put a regular 10mm socket on the hex and was able to break them all loose.

 

[Gizmovr4]

From your picture it looks like you still have the rockers installed- the cams not turning could be simply because some valves are hitting the top of the pistons. Highly unlikely that both cams seized to the point that you can't turn either one with a wrench. Did you by chance drain the oil? If anything inside the engine seized there would be evidence in the oil (silver). Non the less the head needs to come off the block – with the timing belt snap, you likely damaged valves. I would also remove the timing cover to inspect for seized timing components including oil pump!!

 

[rmontalvo23]

Quoting gramkrakr89:


I've also never tried a 3/8" drive to break head bolts loose... never had a problem with a 1/2" breaker bar and a quality hex drive.




I haven't been able to find a 1/2 10mm socket anywhere. All of them are 3/8 sockets and the allen part does taper down when it gets to the socket end. That is the weak point and where they are breaking.

 

[rmontalvo23]

Quoting Vman911:

Which stub do you have in oil pump? I can post pics of my stub thats on my wall of shame.



I always use the Mitsu OEM parts when rebuilding the engines. Timing belt, case, oil pump, etc.

 

[rmontalvo23]

I just called the local Harbor Freight and they have a 1/2 10mm impact socket set. I am on my way there now.

 

[Terry Posten]

Quoting rmontalvo23:
SO here is the update guys. Grocery Getter was right. The cams are seized completely.



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bawling.gif (in my best Rodney Dangerfield voice) "No respect I tell ya, no respect at all"

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

 

[rmontalvo23]

That was funny because I loved Rodney Dangerfield. Back to School has to be one of the best cult classics.

 

[Launch]

oil starved head?

 

[grocery_getter]

You have to remove the rockers to do the camshaft spin test accurately. With the rockers in place, the camshafts are still mechanically connected to the valves.