cheekychimp
Well-known member
So has anyone ever determined what heat range the Pulstars operate in?
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Pulstar Spark Plugs
- Thread starter cheekychimp
- Start date
92_talon_awd
Well-known member
cheekychimp
Well-known member
Thank you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif
So since I am genuinely learning stuff here, school me properly.
I'm taking it that the 7 in the BPR7es corresponds to the 7 in the NGK column? And if that is correct then the Pulstar 1's range anything from the equivalent of a No.4 NGK (which I am guessing is pretty hot) right up the 7?
Wouldn't that theoretically (ignoring any other design issues) mean that the Pulstar 2's would probably work quite well in hot climates?
Or have I got this all wrong?
So since I am genuinely learning stuff here, school me properly.
I'm taking it that the 7 in the BPR7es corresponds to the 7 in the NGK column? And if that is correct then the Pulstar 1's range anything from the equivalent of a No.4 NGK (which I am guessing is pretty hot) right up the 7?
Wouldn't that theoretically (ignoring any other design issues) mean that the Pulstar 2's would probably work quite well in hot climates?
Or have I got this all wrong?
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prove_it
Well-known member
You have it all wrong. Run NGK and be done with it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
EHmotorsports
Well-known member
when I was first starting to learn how to wrench. I asked an old time hot rodder/dirt track racer what his thoughts were on the different plug types. he asked me if i had a choice of melting the tip of the plug or melting the top of the piston what one would i chose? no matter if he was right or wrong that question stuck with me.
I have seen far less damage occur when the plug melted enough to spark out. then i have with a plug that takes the abuse but due to detonation the piston burnt up.
I have seen far less damage occur when the plug melted enough to spark out. then i have with a plug that takes the abuse but due to detonation the piston burnt up.
92_talon_awd
Well-known member
Years ago I melted the spark plugs in a little 3 cylinder geo metro I had. When I pulled the head there were nice little rectangles burnt right through the valves. It was nice.
GSTwithPSI
Well-known member
I didn't know so many people ran BR7ES plugs. That's a fairly cold plug considering most people start out at BPR6ES. According to NGK, the difference in heat ranges from BPR6ES to BR7ES plugs is about 100 (212 F) degrees Celsius. I guess each application is different though, and you guys know what works best in your cars. Running a colder plug only yields more power by helping to eliminate detonation. Anything over that, and you are just hindering optimal combustion.
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turbowop
Well-known member
I think it's pretty common for most guys running elevated boost levels and BPU setups to use heat range 7 NGK's. Less chance for detonation because the plugs are retaining less heat is a good thing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The only difference between the BPR and the BR is the projected tip. I was getting ignition breakup on meth with the BPR7es. Switching to the BR7es plugs fixed it.
The only difference between the BPR and the BR is the projected tip. I was getting ignition breakup on meth with the BPR7es. Switching to the BR7es plugs fixed it.
GSTwithPSI
Well-known member
That's strange, since typically the cooling effect of the methanol would allow you run a hotter plug without issue. Did the BPR7ES work decent for you off the meth?
The nice thing about the NGK offering a plug without the projected tip, is it allows you to have a plug with a heat range that falls almost in between standard heat ranges. For example, the heat range of the BR7ES would fall between the BPR6ES and BPR7ES plugs. I have also heard people prefer the the non-projected tip plugs since they don't have the extra bit of porcelain insulator. As a safety feature, I'm not sure how beneficial that actually proves to be.
The nice thing about the NGK offering a plug without the projected tip, is it allows you to have a plug with a heat range that falls almost in between standard heat ranges. For example, the heat range of the BR7ES would fall between the BPR6ES and BPR7ES plugs. I have also heard people prefer the the non-projected tip plugs since they don't have the extra bit of porcelain insulator. As a safety feature, I'm not sure how beneficial that actually proves to be.
turbowop
Well-known member
Yes, the projected plugs worked fine off meth. But off meth, I run much lower boost and timing levels, so it's kind of an apples to oranges comparison.
That's an interesting topic though. I realize the meth has a cooling effect. Maybe running the higher boost and timing levels pushes the envelope a bit on those cooling and higher octane properties, bringing the need for a colder plug back into play. I still have to watch for knock/detonation, so I'm pretty sure running at least one heat range colder is beneficial.
What do the E85 guys run for plug heat range? I wonder if it would help the winter cold start issues by using a stock heat range plug since E85 cools even more than my meth setup.
That's an interesting topic though. I realize the meth has a cooling effect. Maybe running the higher boost and timing levels pushes the envelope a bit on those cooling and higher octane properties, bringing the need for a colder plug back into play. I still have to watch for knock/detonation, so I'm pretty sure running at least one heat range colder is beneficial.
What do the E85 guys run for plug heat range? I wonder if it would help the winter cold start issues by using a stock heat range plug since E85 cools even more than my meth setup.
prove_it
Well-known member
I just swapped in some BR6ES plugs to try with E85. I got into a discussion a week ago about it, then found a lot of research online about not using a cold plug with E85. So I tried it. I think they work great. I havent noticed a difference from the Br7ES I had. Even on E85, I have better ignition with the non-projected plugs. I've been dd the car, and have not checked the new 6's to see. It pulls hard though. I did notice more of a hiccup between 3500 and 4500. I have my cyclone set to 4100, so I went in a added about 3* timing under the 4000 range and damn, it cleaned up really pulls to the cyclone activation, then really pulls.
So far my impression is that with E85, there is no need for a colder plug unless your running big power. My 7es's were usually in good shape and weren't black by any means, so I know they work. Hell I ran them for about 15k miles. The non-projected have really helped with fathom knock.
So far my impression is that with E85, there is no need for a colder plug unless your running big power. My 7es's were usually in good shape and weren't black by any means, so I know they work. Hell I ran them for about 15k miles. The non-projected have really helped with fathom knock.
diambo4life
Well-known member
NGK BR8ES is what I have always run in my cars. Stock ignition, with NGK wires E85 in both my old Talon and my GVR4. Good for daily driving and 35psi+ boost. Mine are usually gapped at 0.017"-0.018". My GVR4 is actually on E98 now and I have no ignition issues even at 40psi on the 6466. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif sh*t works...just fine.
Only other plugs I would even attempt to run in my car are the NGK iridiums. Nothing else.
Only other plugs I would even attempt to run in my car are the NGK iridiums. Nothing else.
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gvr4ever
Well-known member
Copper has lower resistance / better conductivity. All the other plugs are for extended life, not performance.
bazeng
Well-known member
ngkb8es here.
E85.
So far so good.
E85.
So far so good.
bradrs
Well-known member
Quoting gvr4ever:
Copper has lower resistance / better conductivity. All the other plugs are for extended life, not performance.
But there are tradeoffs, even in the copper plugs. The copper plug has a large electrode. The smaller electrode of the platinums and iridiums actually help to concentrate the electric field, to make jumping the gap that much easier. And once the spark occurs, a smaller electrode will mean there is that much more room for the flame front to expand. One of the old tricks on plugs to improve performance is to cut the side electrode back so that it covers just half of the center electrode, for more or less the same reason of improving initial flame propagation.
Copper has lower resistance / better conductivity. All the other plugs are for extended life, not performance.
But there are tradeoffs, even in the copper plugs. The copper plug has a large electrode. The smaller electrode of the platinums and iridiums actually help to concentrate the electric field, to make jumping the gap that much easier. And once the spark occurs, a smaller electrode will mean there is that much more room for the flame front to expand. One of the old tricks on plugs to improve performance is to cut the side electrode back so that it covers just half of the center electrode, for more or less the same reason of improving initial flame propagation.
gvr4ever
Well-known member
Says commercials. Electricity finds the least resistance path. It's all about resistance. Aside from gold and silver, copper is the best thing we can use. Dual tipped plugs might be able to find a different path of lower resistance if one tip wears out, but the copper plugs are so cheap, just make sure they are set correctly and change em out when needed.
I think it was Extreme Performance tested copper plugs over other materials and all but very high boosted applications, the cheap copper plugs performed best.
The best thing you can do is make sure your car is tuned up and working properly. Instead of spending money on more expensive spark plugs, you could save that cash for a part that will make real horse power gains.
I think the spark plug market is a lot like the audio/video cable market. Sure, some junk might exist on the market, but as long as you have good and working, that's it. You don't need anything else.
I think it was Extreme Performance tested copper plugs over other materials and all but very high boosted applications, the cheap copper plugs performed best.
The best thing you can do is make sure your car is tuned up and working properly. Instead of spending money on more expensive spark plugs, you could save that cash for a part that will make real horse power gains.
I think the spark plug market is a lot like the audio/video cable market. Sure, some junk might exist on the market, but as long as you have good and working, that's it. You don't need anything else.
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prove_it
Well-known member
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/horse.gif
GSTwithPSI
Well-known member
Quoting gvr4ever:
Says commercials. Electricity finds the least resistance path. It's all about resistance. Aside from gold and silver, copper is the best thing we can use. Dual tipped plugs might be able to find a different path of lower resistance if one tip wears out, but the copper plugs are so cheap, just make sure they are set correctly and change em out when needed.
I think it was Extreme Performance tested copper plugs over other materials and all but very high boosted applications, the cheap copper plugs performed best.
The best thing you can do is make sure your car is tuned up and working properly. Instead of spending money on more expensive spark plugs, you could save that cash for a part that will make real horse power gains.
I think the spark plug market is a lot like the audio/video cable market. Sure, some junk might exist on the market, but as long as you have good and working, that's it. You don't need anything else.
/thread
Says commercials. Electricity finds the least resistance path. It's all about resistance. Aside from gold and silver, copper is the best thing we can use. Dual tipped plugs might be able to find a different path of lower resistance if one tip wears out, but the copper plugs are so cheap, just make sure they are set correctly and change em out when needed.
I think it was Extreme Performance tested copper plugs over other materials and all but very high boosted applications, the cheap copper plugs performed best.
The best thing you can do is make sure your car is tuned up and working properly. Instead of spending money on more expensive spark plugs, you could save that cash for a part that will make real horse power gains.
I think the spark plug market is a lot like the audio/video cable market. Sure, some junk might exist on the market, but as long as you have good and working, that's it. You don't need anything else.
/thread
bradrs
Well-known member
Quoting gvr4ever:
Says commercials.
No, the stuff I mentioned is what engineering and physics books would tell you. And if you asked a guy who actually designed ignitions for a living, he'd tell you the same. In fact, he just did tell you the same. I guess if I mentioned the ignitions I have designed for these vehicles, then you could claim my post was a commercial. So I will avoid doing that.
If the high voltage is at a sharp point, the E-field generated is more concentrated. It is the same reason that a new plug with a sharp edges fires better than an old plug with worn edges. Resistance only matters once current flows. Prior to the current flowing, there has to be enough voltage to bridge the gap. And that is where the small conductor can help.
Quoting gvr4ever:
The best thing you can do is make sure your car is tuned up and working properly. Instead of spending money on more expensive spark plugs, you could save that cash for a part that will make real horse power gains.
I think the spark plug market is a lot like the audio/video cable market. Sure, some junk might exist on the market, but as long as you have good and working, that's it. You don't need anything else.
This I will agree with, and why I said these Pulstars are garbage. Their perceived benefits are just to people who want to believe in it, and ignore the science/facts. Platinum and Iridium plugs do have their use though, and it isn't 100% about the longevity.
Says commercials.
No, the stuff I mentioned is what engineering and physics books would tell you. And if you asked a guy who actually designed ignitions for a living, he'd tell you the same. In fact, he just did tell you the same. I guess if I mentioned the ignitions I have designed for these vehicles, then you could claim my post was a commercial. So I will avoid doing that.
If the high voltage is at a sharp point, the E-field generated is more concentrated. It is the same reason that a new plug with a sharp edges fires better than an old plug with worn edges. Resistance only matters once current flows. Prior to the current flowing, there has to be enough voltage to bridge the gap. And that is where the small conductor can help.
Quoting gvr4ever:
The best thing you can do is make sure your car is tuned up and working properly. Instead of spending money on more expensive spark plugs, you could save that cash for a part that will make real horse power gains.
I think the spark plug market is a lot like the audio/video cable market. Sure, some junk might exist on the market, but as long as you have good and working, that's it. You don't need anything else.
This I will agree with, and why I said these Pulstars are garbage. Their perceived benefits are just to people who want to believe in it, and ignore the science/facts. Platinum and Iridium plugs do have their use though, and it isn't 100% about the longevity.
prove_it
Well-known member
Did you just say that you designed the ignitions for the 4G63?
