CutlassJim
Well-known member
^ +1
The Top Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 Resource
Join the best E39A 1991-1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 community and document your GVR4 journey. Login to browse without most ads.
OK here's an interesting question for the experts.
- Thread starter cheekychimp
- Start date
cheekychimp
Well-known member
For everyone that has replied, thank you. This has turned into an awesome thread and has really changed my perspective on engine rebuilds. The information you guys have at your disposal as a collective is pretty damn amazing and your opinions as to what options work and why they work are just as useful.
As I have said already, I really started delving into this because I realized that after you have paid to replace all the parts, gaskets, pumps, seals etc to do comprehensive preventive maintenance (plus in my case paid for the labour), you are not that far off the price of a budget engine rebuild.
Cutless Jim, Jschleim18 and Lonewolf64, you have really opened my eyes on a few more issues and thanks to Broxma and Josh for sharing new insight on what seems to be an ever increasing catalog of parts from the EVO VIII which can be considered. I was really interested to see the mention of the FP68HTA too. I've been looking at that turbo a lot recently and wondering not only what it would be like on the 2.0 litre but also how it would run on a 2.3 stroker seeing as it flows more than an 18G. It seems like it would spool like a demon but still flow enough up top to give a broad spread of power. I also have plenty of stuff left over from the other build to rig up a simple water/alcohol injection setup which makes the idea of using higher compression very attractive.
I am still very interested to see if higher compression and the Cyclone manifold could be used in unison to create good results. I thought the Cyclone flowed enough up top to compete with 1G and 2G intakes in which case I would have thought the butterflies could only help with low end torque, but 21 psi at 3K makes it seem a bit pointless to bother trying, UNLESS the Cyclone CAN improve upon that.
Belize1334, I do remember your posts and I was really interested in your progress but unfortunately it is something I'll never be able to use here because I am prohibited by law from using anything other than a 4G63 block. Thanks again though to you and Josh for confirming the benefits of higher compression and perhaps one way to save some money here might be to swap over the DSMLink from my other car to tune timing and fuel maps and then have Jeff burn a chip with those settings to avoid the need to buy DSMLink again. Using a 1G or 2G intake would make things easier here as DSMLink doesn't work with the Cyclone unless you rig up another method to activate the butterflies.
I think I'm sold on this. I have two JDM blocks sitting around at Ken's shop just wasting space. Time to get them dipped and machined and then start thinking about a sensible budget rebuild option for the stock car which can be done locally.
THANK YOU /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif
As I have said already, I really started delving into this because I realized that after you have paid to replace all the parts, gaskets, pumps, seals etc to do comprehensive preventive maintenance (plus in my case paid for the labour), you are not that far off the price of a budget engine rebuild.
Cutless Jim, Jschleim18 and Lonewolf64, you have really opened my eyes on a few more issues and thanks to Broxma and Josh for sharing new insight on what seems to be an ever increasing catalog of parts from the EVO VIII which can be considered. I was really interested to see the mention of the FP68HTA too. I've been looking at that turbo a lot recently and wondering not only what it would be like on the 2.0 litre but also how it would run on a 2.3 stroker seeing as it flows more than an 18G. It seems like it would spool like a demon but still flow enough up top to give a broad spread of power. I also have plenty of stuff left over from the other build to rig up a simple water/alcohol injection setup which makes the idea of using higher compression very attractive.
I am still very interested to see if higher compression and the Cyclone manifold could be used in unison to create good results. I thought the Cyclone flowed enough up top to compete with 1G and 2G intakes in which case I would have thought the butterflies could only help with low end torque, but 21 psi at 3K makes it seem a bit pointless to bother trying, UNLESS the Cyclone CAN improve upon that.
Belize1334, I do remember your posts and I was really interested in your progress but unfortunately it is something I'll never be able to use here because I am prohibited by law from using anything other than a 4G63 block. Thanks again though to you and Josh for confirming the benefits of higher compression and perhaps one way to save some money here might be to swap over the DSMLink from my other car to tune timing and fuel maps and then have Jeff burn a chip with those settings to avoid the need to buy DSMLink again. Using a 1G or 2G intake would make things easier here as DSMLink doesn't work with the Cyclone unless you rig up another method to activate the butterflies.
I think I'm sold on this. I have two JDM blocks sitting around at Ken's shop just wasting space. Time to get them dipped and machined and then start thinking about a sensible budget rebuild option for the stock car which can be done locally.
THANK YOU /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif
curtis
Well-known member
Paul cyclone flows 2 less CFM than a usdm stocker. A bigger plenum helps with this, If you can find an amg cyclone you got that problem fixed, because it has the larger box on it. Barry posted pictures of the differences a few months back.
Struc
Well-known member
Quoting belize1334:
Edit: It seems like it may also be possible to run the n/a 4g64 pistons out of the '95 DOHC 4g64. They have the same wrist pin config as 2G so could be adapted to 1G rods and since they're DOHC there'd be no need to worry about valve clearance. The problem here is the same one that comes up when people run N/A 4g63 pistons. They're pretty tough but they won't stand up to knock like a turbo piston. And they're 10:1 cr so the tune would have to be conservative.
Just want to correct this info slightly.
The 1994 Galant GS (not 1995) was the only DOHC 4G64, and yes, the pistons were 10:1 compression ratio.
There are some other NA pistons that could be used, however. The SOHC 4G64's pistons work as well. Most of those (94-98 Galant, 96-99 Spyder) have 9.5:1 compression, which is what I have on my turbo'ed Spyder. There are also some CA spec 4G64's that came with 9.0:1 compression pistons. They (none of them) are built as strong as the turbo pistons, however (thinner dome, different ring land positions), so keeping a perfect tune, and lower boost (10-15psi max, depending on setup) is pretty vital to piston life.
Edit: It seems like it may also be possible to run the n/a 4g64 pistons out of the '95 DOHC 4g64. They have the same wrist pin config as 2G so could be adapted to 1G rods and since they're DOHC there'd be no need to worry about valve clearance. The problem here is the same one that comes up when people run N/A 4g63 pistons. They're pretty tough but they won't stand up to knock like a turbo piston. And they're 10:1 cr so the tune would have to be conservative.
Just want to correct this info slightly.
The 1994 Galant GS (not 1995) was the only DOHC 4G64, and yes, the pistons were 10:1 compression ratio.
There are some other NA pistons that could be used, however. The SOHC 4G64's pistons work as well. Most of those (94-98 Galant, 96-99 Spyder) have 9.5:1 compression, which is what I have on my turbo'ed Spyder. There are also some CA spec 4G64's that came with 9.0:1 compression pistons. They (none of them) are built as strong as the turbo pistons, however (thinner dome, different ring land positions), so keeping a perfect tune, and lower boost (10-15psi max, depending on setup) is pretty vital to piston life.
Last edited:
Street Surgeon
Well-known member
My factory freak GVR4 build would be...
Head: 2G head with....
94 Galant GS cams (for the mitsu build) or FP 1's or 2's
3G lifters
Evo 8/9 beehive springs, seats, retainers
Evo 8/9 rockers
Evo 8/9 valves with a 3-way valvejob (to keep it on the cheap)
OEM evo III intake manifold port matched
Do some light work on the bowls and clean up the casting flash... Done.
Block:
Polish the inside of the block (yes you read that correctly)
Evo9 pistons with OEM rings etc. (cryo'd)
6-bolt 1G rods, cryo'd, shotpeened, balanced, ARP rod bolts, polished perhaps (*again* yes you read that right)
OEM Balance Shaft elimination kit
OEM uncut crank (cryo if you're feeling frisky)
ACL tri metal race bearings
Fluidampr crank damper/pulley
Lightweight aluminum accessory pullies
OEM metal headgasket with ARP headstuds
Turbo, Accessories, Intake and Exhaust:
Ported Evo III exhaust manifold
Ported Evo III O2 housing
FP 20G6SL2
3" SS downpipe
3" SS testpipe
3" SS catback (3" inlet, dual outlets of course)
ETS FMIC kit
ETS intake pipe
Evo9 recirc valve
Fuel:
Walbro 255lph
ID 1000cc injectors
Aeromotive AFPR
Electronics:
Evo MAF
ECMlink v3
or
Evo 8 ECU with Evo 8 boost control solenoid running speed density patch?
Drivetrain:
Shep Stg4 trans or TRE stg3
Competition clutch (2600 equivalent)
Chromoly flywheel
3speed scattershield
Brakes:
3kGT brakes
SS lines
DOT6 fluid
Misc:
Modified factory oil pan with some baffles and larger sump
All new OEM belts, with OEM tensioners etc, OEM waterpump, all new OEM maintenance stuff
Head: 2G head with....
94 Galant GS cams (for the mitsu build) or FP 1's or 2's
3G lifters
Evo 8/9 beehive springs, seats, retainers
Evo 8/9 rockers
Evo 8/9 valves with a 3-way valvejob (to keep it on the cheap)
OEM evo III intake manifold port matched
Do some light work on the bowls and clean up the casting flash... Done.
Block:
Polish the inside of the block (yes you read that correctly)
Evo9 pistons with OEM rings etc. (cryo'd)
6-bolt 1G rods, cryo'd, shotpeened, balanced, ARP rod bolts, polished perhaps (*again* yes you read that right)
OEM Balance Shaft elimination kit
OEM uncut crank (cryo if you're feeling frisky)
ACL tri metal race bearings
Fluidampr crank damper/pulley
Lightweight aluminum accessory pullies
OEM metal headgasket with ARP headstuds
Turbo, Accessories, Intake and Exhaust:
Ported Evo III exhaust manifold
Ported Evo III O2 housing
FP 20G6SL2
3" SS downpipe
3" SS testpipe
3" SS catback (3" inlet, dual outlets of course)
ETS FMIC kit
ETS intake pipe
Evo9 recirc valve
Fuel:
Walbro 255lph
ID 1000cc injectors
Aeromotive AFPR
Electronics:
Evo MAF
ECMlink v3
or
Evo 8 ECU with Evo 8 boost control solenoid running speed density patch?
Drivetrain:
Shep Stg4 trans or TRE stg3
Competition clutch (2600 equivalent)
Chromoly flywheel
3speed scattershield
Brakes:
3kGT brakes
SS lines
DOT6 fluid
Misc:
Modified factory oil pan with some baffles and larger sump
All new OEM belts, with OEM tensioners etc, OEM waterpump, all new OEM maintenance stuff
Last edited:
cheekychimp
Well-known member
Okay another quick question ... and don't go off at me again, I'm just throwing this out there.
I read an article the other day about the AMG Galant and it said among other things that the AMG engine could rev happily to 8000 rpms without an issue. Anyone know what sort of head the AMG had or the spring/retainer setup it used.
I know it is probably a moot point, given that this type of build isn't about top end power, I'm just wondering if there is more to this AMG Cyclone manifold idea. I also wondered how 'specific' springs are. Assuming the ability to run an 8000 redline was there, could you use OEM springs from any other application that regularly see higher rpms. I'm not sure how much work would be involved (I have never rebuilt a head) but I am guessing it is probably easier and just as cheap to buy aftermarket springs? Just interested in other options.
I read an article the other day about the AMG Galant and it said among other things that the AMG engine could rev happily to 8000 rpms without an issue. Anyone know what sort of head the AMG had or the spring/retainer setup it used.
I know it is probably a moot point, given that this type of build isn't about top end power, I'm just wondering if there is more to this AMG Cyclone manifold idea. I also wondered how 'specific' springs are. Assuming the ability to run an 8000 redline was there, could you use OEM springs from any other application that regularly see higher rpms. I'm not sure how much work would be involved (I have never rebuilt a head) but I am guessing it is probably easier and just as cheap to buy aftermarket springs? Just interested in other options.
IncorpoRatedX
Well-known member
stock springs could do it on a very mild cam which they were using, but slightly stiffer springs on stock valve train with a mild cam would give you the peace of mind. Revving to 8000 is no major feat in the DOHC 4 cyl world. Honda kids constantly laugh at our redlines, i usually see them doing it, in my rear view mirror. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
cheekychimp
Well-known member
^ LOL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif Thanks Josh. I'm still looking at this AMG intake idea and wondering if it is worth pursuing.
Paul.
Paul.
cheekychimp
Well-known member
Quoting curtis:
Paul cyclone flows 2 less CFM than a usdm stocker. A bigger plenum helps with this, If you can find an amg cyclone you got that problem fixed, because it has the larger box on it. Barry posted pictures of the differences a few months back.
Might have a lead on one of these. Guy is selling it with a complete AMG head, AMG throttle body, Spark Plug Cover, injectors and cables/plugs etc. I think I'm going to get it just for the intake because it's a good price but is anything else in there usable (head, throttle body)?
Paul cyclone flows 2 less CFM than a usdm stocker. A bigger plenum helps with this, If you can find an amg cyclone you got that problem fixed, because it has the larger box on it. Barry posted pictures of the differences a few months back.
Might have a lead on one of these. Guy is selling it with a complete AMG head, AMG throttle body, Spark Plug Cover, injectors and cables/plugs etc. I think I'm going to get it just for the intake because it's a good price but is anything else in there usable (head, throttle body)?
fuel
Well-known member
AMG redline is 7500rpm, it would seem silly to have an 8000rpm redline when it makes its peak power at 6750rpm. My 6A12 MIVEC V6 on the other hand had a 8000rpm redline, but it made peak power at 7500rpm.
RedTwo
Well-known member
Quoting cheekychimp:
Quoting curtis:
Paul cyclone flows 2 less CFM than a usdm stocker. A bigger plenum helps with this, If you can find an amg cyclone you got that problem fixed, because it has the larger box on it. Barry posted pictures of the differences a few months back.
Might have a lead on one of these. Guy is selling it with a complete AMG head, AMG throttle body, Spark Plug Cover, injectors and cables/plugs etc. I think I'm going to get it just for the intake because it's a good price but is anything else in there usable (head, throttle body)?
A lot of the parts on an AMG engine are common to regular 2.0L galants, I made a list a while back...
Quoting curtis:
Paul cyclone flows 2 less CFM than a usdm stocker. A bigger plenum helps with this, If you can find an amg cyclone you got that problem fixed, because it has the larger box on it. Barry posted pictures of the differences a few months back.
Might have a lead on one of these. Guy is selling it with a complete AMG head, AMG throttle body, Spark Plug Cover, injectors and cables/plugs etc. I think I'm going to get it just for the intake because it's a good price but is anything else in there usable (head, throttle body)?
A lot of the parts on an AMG engine are common to regular 2.0L galants, I made a list a while back...
cheekychimp
Well-known member
So the head is basically junk in a turbo application? And the throttle body? Any larger?
