New Owner of 1837/2000

[GSTwithPSI]

I put almost 1,000 miles on 1837 driving to the Shootout and back, which puts me at a little over 2K miles on the new motor. Aside from being a little dirty from getting stuck in the rain on the return trip, there wasn't a single hiccup with the car. I was confident in the car this year, and I'm glad I waited it out to ensure the trip would be trouble free. I've never had 7 hours of constant seat time in 1837, and I learned a few things on the trip, good and bad:

The good:
The new Recaros are awesome. When I first installed them, I was worried about how comfortable they would be. For starters, the seat cushion is narrow, and your legs are locked into the driving position. The ride height is also significantly lower, and you're literally sitting on the floor in these compare to the stock buckets. Once I drove the car around a bit, I got used to both, but I was still on the fence about how 7 hours in the Recaros would feel. I can confidently say these are the most comfortable seats I've ever driven in. After 7 hours, my ass felt just a good as it did when I first got in the car...No bullshit.

I also got better mileage on E85 than I thought I would. I was averaging around 18 MPG on the highway, and we were cruising between 75-80 MPH most of the time.

Lastly, the JIC coilovers didn't have me pissing blood after 7 hours, which was welcomed.

Oh, and no breakdowns /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


The bad:
I really only have 2 main complaints after being in the car for an extended period of time. The first is 3" exhaust drone gets old after like 45 minutes. Meh.

The second, and far more annoying issue is the DSS driveshaft. The DSS driveshafts are NOT for street cars, IMO. The driveshaft is noisy, and amplifies every noise in the driveline. It also seems to create some sort of weird harmonic noise on decel, which is horribly annoying. I've done hours and hours of testing, troubleshooting, and diagnosing trying to pinpoint the source of the noise to no avail. No matter how much testing I do, I still only draw one conclusion; the issue is the DSS driveshaft is just a noisy POS. Additionally, my driveline was completely silent with the stock driveshaft, further reinforcing the problem being the DSS shaft itself. I suppose I should have considered how a giant piece of 3.5" hollow aluminum tubing would act compared to the stock driveshaft, but I didn't. The moral of the story is don't put a DSS driveshaft on your Galant if you enjoy listening to smooth Jazz on your commute to work...You won't enjoy the experience.




After I got the car home I gave it a good wash, and figured I'd change the oil. It was far before it was due, but I wanted to pull the filter and chop it open to inspect after the long drive. Zero metal, and really zero contaminates overall. The filter element was spotless:

Lastly, a picture of my new filter for G /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

East Coast MOD is coming up in a few weeks, so hoping to take 1837 and 820 out for that. I'm also trying to find time to get back to the track and hopefully break 11's. Got cams and a SD swap on the list of things to do to 1837 as well...Just too much to do, and not enough time to do it all.

 

[G]

That's a dope ass filter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Did you get the magnets yet? You will be surprised at what you catch.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

No, been meaning to pick up a set, though. Where's that link to them again?

 

[G]

click

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Winter is coming...So time to get back on the jack stands again soon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Picked up a Stage 2 Shep trans at MOD. A good trans was the last thing the build was really lacking, so I'm excited to get this in for next season.

The stock cams will be coming out and I've got a set of HKS cams going in. I've got 264 and a 272 exhaust cams, so not sure if I'll go straight 264's or do the 264/272 combo.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

That time I blew the welds on the intake...

 

[transparentdsm]

way to go spilner.. now me and the mad scientist need to tear the block down and make sure you didnt fry the piston rings. haaaaaa

 

[GSTwithPSI]

I pulled my injectors tonight to upgrade my fuel rail, and discovered some of the infamous black E85 goo. I've seen some people have trouble with goo, and others who have been on E85 for years and never seen it. Until today, I was one of those who have never seen it.

I've pulled my injectors on numerous occasions over the last year, and never saw a single trace of goo. I believe that's because the fuel in my area is pretty good quality overall. However, I went through about 5-7 tanks of E85 from various out of state locations over the last few months driving to the Shootout, and to East Coast MOD. I truly think the fuel station, and the quality of fuel coming out of that storage tank are what ultimately cause the goo.

I gave the injectors a quick cleaning, and now the goo is gone. I'll pull the injectors in another 2k miles and check for goo again, as I'm curious to see if the fuel in my area is contributing to the problem. As far as ethanol content, the tested levels from my local stations have been great. With winter coming up, I'm also curious to see if the ethanol content drops off a bit.

Goo

All clean

 

[ApexHunter]

I too have been curious about this phenomenon. As you said, some go years w/o a trace, and others can't shake it. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out for you.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

There are tons of theories as to how and why the goo accumulates, and where it comes from. The one I can personally attest to is fuel grade.

Personally, I ran E85 for 6 months without ever seeing any sign of goo. During that specific goo free time period, I only got E85 from 1 of 2 stations in my area. The primary station I used is on a military base, where flex fuel vehicles are fueled regularly, and I would assume the station tanks are therefore refilled regularly. The second station is a Shell station, which is in the heart of Annapolis, and is always busy. Additionally, I've tested the ethanol content of the fuels from both of these stations in the summer months and it has always been at or over 85%. Long story short, I believe the fuel from both of the stations in my local area is good quality.

Back up to last May, when I swapped out my FIC 1050's for a set of FIC 1150's. I had been on E85 for nearly 6 months at that point. When I pulled the 1050's, they were spotless: (Take note where I even mention in the post there's no goo in my 1050's at all): click

In that post, I had just received my 1150's back from FIC after cleaning and flow testing. I swapped them in, and at the time, they too were spotless. Now, fast forward to today just 5 months later, and suddenly my injectors are full of goo. The only real difference is where I fueled the car over that period of time. Namely, I drove the the Shootout and also East Coast MOD. I fueled the car in various states, at various stations; obviously with varying grades/qualities of E85.

Long story short, I don't think E85 causes goo. I think crappy E85 causes goo based on my personal experiences with it. The problem is, there's no real way for simpletons like myself to actually check the grade of the fuel aside from testing ethanol content (that I'm aware of). As such, I would recommend to anyone running E85 to pull their injectors every few thousand miles and give them a look. If you're running crappy E85 grade fuel, it will undoubtedly show.

 

[slugsgomoo]

would it be worth it to run gasoline through it every few tanks to (in theory) clean it out? I would expect the solvents in gasoline to help combat the goo somewhat, especially if combined with something like seafoam. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ughdunno.gif

I wish e85 was more available near me. I lived a few miles from a base with an E85 pump for years but it's only available to vehicles with government plates /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wtc.gif

 

[GSTwithPSI]

It's hard to say. I think depending on how crappy the E85 is, it may or may not help. I will say that once the goo is there, no fuel or additives will remove it. It has to be done manually. When I park my car in the winters, I run all of the E85 out of the system and garage it with pump gas in the tank.

I've seen injectors gooed up way worse than mine, but in the condition pictured above mine still seemed to perform fine. I never noticed any loss in performance or driveability. If left unchecked, I assume the goo could cause a lean condition, or even cause fuel to pool, which are a real problems.

IMO, E85 users just have to look at pulling the injectors like any other maintenance item. If not, you're rolling the dice. Least, that's how I'm looking at the problem. Even if I knew the E85 in my area was undoubtedly sh*t, I still couldn't give it up. Corn makes the powaaa.

 

[ApexHunter]

What was your weapon of choice for goo removal?

Yes, many theories as to how and why, and i haven't been able to draw any great conclusions.

Gospel down in socal is to run 91 every few tanks, as slugs was saying. Thing is, there are quite a few people who are a goo-free who never do that. Fuel quality so far seems to be most logical. I mean, if they stay clean when using 2 stations, but then you venture off the range and start sampling some other stuff and have problems, seems kinda obvious that it was something with the other fuel, or maybe lack of equipment maintenance.

I don't fucks with the e85 yet, partly because goo. But Flex Fuel tech has been calling my name for the last few months...

 

[biglady112]

Here are your answers as to what the goo is. It was done by a dsmer who used to live here but, has since moved to texas. He is a chemist. Real analysis inside.

click

 

[strokin4dr]

I came across that thread years back before deciding to give e85 a try. It's a good read!

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting ApexHunter:
What was your weapon of choice for goo removal?

Yes, many theories as to how and why, and i haven't been able to draw any great conclusions.

Gospel down in socal is to run 91 every few tanks, as slugs was saying. Thing is, there are quite a few people who are a goo-free who never do that. Fuel quality so far seems to be most logical. I mean, if they stay clean when using 2 stations, but then you venture off the range and start sampling some other stuff and have problems, seems kinda obvious that it was something with the other fuel, or maybe lack of equipment maintenance.

I don't fucks with the e85 yet, partly because goo. But Flex Fuel tech has been calling my name for the last few months...



I just used a toothbrush and gasoline to remove the goo. All the buildup on my injectors was external. The baskets and pintles were completely clean.

My personal experience with the goo says is comes from a shitty pump. Whether that's the equipment itself (tanks, pump, etc) that degrades the fuel quality or the actual quality of the fuel itself before it hits the tank (or perhaps a combination of both), I think your goo problem will be hit or miss depending on the station itself.

Goo or not, swapping to E85 is still the best thing I've even done to the car performance wise. I'd still highly recommend it if it's available in your area. I can remove 3 bolts and access the injectors on my car, so maintaining them isn't a big deal for me personally. I don't even have to crack open the fuel system.





Quoting biglady112:
Here are your answers as to what the goo is. It was done by a dsmer who used to live here but, has since moved to texas. He is a chemist. Real analysis inside.

click



Yeah, I've read that thread before as well. It's funny you post it, because I just read it again recently after I found goo in my injectors. I appreciate the link.

I've read tons of other stuff online as to the causes of the goo. Here's another good one that was started here: click

Still, out of all the stuff I've read I've still only seen good theories about why it occurs. I've yet to see anything definitive, and I think that's probably because the causes of goo vary a great deal. What I do find to be common is some people who run E85 that don't have goo issues don't fuel their cars at a wide variety of places. One of Scott's posts suggested this as well: click

After reading Scott's post, and a few others implying the same thing, I'll be limiting where I fuel my car to see if I can prove/disprove the theory.

 

[slugsgomoo]

after digging through the whole thread, the apparent answer from the chemist is interesting and worth sticking straight in the thread here IMO

Quote:
Alright, I finished my analysis of this stuff, and my finding is very unexpected. I think it will probably surprise everyone else as well. This doesn't appear to be forming because ethanol is "such a good solvent" but because ethanol is a poor solvent. I suppose it should have been obvious when others said that it "washes right off with gasoline". Why would something that ethanol is selectively dissolving wash off with gasoline? If this were something in rubber or from our fuel tanks, wouldn't that imply that gasoline would dissolve it even more readily than E85?

Alright, so what is this stuff? It is a appears to be a very large petroleum based hydrocarbon, similar to Vaseline. There isn't a single hetero-atom in the molecule (ie, the entire molecule is comprised of hydrogens and carbons), but the molecule is very large. It is also completely aliphatic (ie, only single bonds in the structure - no double or triple bonds). Where did it come from? I can only think of two different sources it could be coming from. It is either something that is mixed in with the rubber hoses that is meant to dissolve away in the gasoline, or it is a trace impurity in the 15% gasoline that is in E85 that wasn't separated during the fractional distillation process. Because it is such a large molecule, it wouldn't be very soluble in ethanol and could easily crash out of solution at the injector.



So it seems like the quality of the 15% is really the issue here.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

I got some wrenching done on the car recently. Started with an in-car cam swap. I'm on a HKS 264/272 combo now.

Out with the Magnus SMIM and in with the Magnus V3.

After plenty of ass pain I finally got the V3 to fit. The thing is absolutely huge. I had to relocate my fuel filter because it was too close to the throttle body. As a result, my fuel lines no longer fit, so I've got new ones on order. Once those come in, I should be up and running again.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Alright, got the fuel line situation worked out, and relocated the filter. Used the handy-dandy ECMlink fuel pump activation feature to check for leaks and verify base fuel pressure, and was all good there.

Then, I slapped the boost leak tester on and checked for leaks. Fixed a leak at the J-pipe flange, and the BISS O-ring, but after that the car held 30psi solid.

I hit the key and the car fired right up. After it was warm, I made a few adjustments to the BISS and got it idling nice and smooth. I took it out for a drive and it ran just as smooth. There's no loss in low end torque that I can tell, and the top end has obviously improved greatly. With the addition of cams (I was on stockers before) in conjunction with the V3, it's hard to tell exactly how each part is improving top end. However, it's clear the car is much more potent near redline, whereas it seemed to fall off previously.

I need to make some minor adjustments to the tune, but overall the car still runs awesome. The fall weather here has been awesome as well, and driving the Galant around in it is great. Here's few pics I took while out test driving around today:

 

[transparentdsm]

heck yeah Brett. the car looks great and you have some amazing places by you to drive and take pictures. loving the new set-up.