Whoodoo
Well-known member
Quote:
three to one
That doesn't make any sense.
three to one
That doesn't make any sense.
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New GVR4 Owner - Colorado
- Thread starter Dark_Horse
- Start date
mitsuturbo
Well-known member
^ nice Anchorman quote /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
True. It makes NO sense, and it's completely wrong as well.
True. It makes NO sense, and it's completely wrong as well.
Barnes
Well-known member
I thought our cars had triangle shaped crankshafts. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
mitsuturbo
Well-known member
Yeah, didn't you know? We got them-thar rotary pistons and crankshafts. Verily, it's a newfangled contraption!
toybreaker
iconoclast
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2006
- Messages
- 3,581
The rear balance shaft catches a lot of people out.
I think what SouthCali is trying to say is that the indicated drive ratio of the rear balance shaft is not a simple 2 to 1 ratio like the front balance shaft.
(The balance shaft itself is turning at a two to one with the crank, but the timing marks won't show it)
The combination of the crank and oil pump gears (driven by the t-belt) and then the oil pump gears themselves means the rear markings (the ones you use to set the timing belt with) won;t come up right again for I *believe* six complete turns of the crankshaft (forgive me guys, I'm not sure, it's been quite a few beers since I put a wrench to the t-belt on any of my cars)
My guess is that that would make the possibilities for phase errors at 120* and 240* out of phase.
Could somebody please verify my info?
thanks!
I think what SouthCali is trying to say is that the indicated drive ratio of the rear balance shaft is not a simple 2 to 1 ratio like the front balance shaft.
(The balance shaft itself is turning at a two to one with the crank, but the timing marks won't show it)
The combination of the crank and oil pump gears (driven by the t-belt) and then the oil pump gears themselves means the rear markings (the ones you use to set the timing belt with) won;t come up right again for I *believe* six complete turns of the crankshaft (forgive me guys, I'm not sure, it's been quite a few beers since I put a wrench to the t-belt on any of my cars)
My guess is that that would make the possibilities for phase errors at 120* and 240* out of phase.
Could somebody please verify my info?
thanks!
mitsuturbo
Well-known member
You are correct about the six rotations thing.. sort of. That's how long it takes for ALL The marks to line up again.
The PROPER way to align the rear balance shaft (aside from following the FSM method of removing the bolt and inserting something in the back of the block, which is obvious but is rarely done) is to set the oil pump gear mark, and give it a spin about 45° either way.. if it wants to fall OUT of sync, it will be out of sync with the front shaft, and the gear needs to be spun 360° from where you had it. If it wants to fall BACK into sync with the timing marks, it will be set RIGHT when aligned, provided you dont have the gears inside the pump mismatched (there are timing marks inside the oil pump on the gears as well).
The PROPER way to align the rear balance shaft (aside from following the FSM method of removing the bolt and inserting something in the back of the block, which is obvious but is rarely done) is to set the oil pump gear mark, and give it a spin about 45° either way.. if it wants to fall OUT of sync, it will be out of sync with the front shaft, and the gear needs to be spun 360° from where you had it. If it wants to fall BACK into sync with the timing marks, it will be set RIGHT when aligned, provided you dont have the gears inside the pump mismatched (there are timing marks inside the oil pump on the gears as well).
Toybreaker, the explanation you gave is 100% correct. As for your specific numbers (120*, 240*, 6 rotations of the crank) I'm pretty sure you're also correct. There is an access bolt/plug that can be removed on the rear (firewall side) of the of the block to check for proper B/S orientation. You remove the plug and insert screwdriver into the hole, with every timing mark lined up. If it goes in 3-4 inches, you're good, if it goes in like an inch and then stops, you're not. The bolt/plug is a 14mm head, 10mm X 1.25 thread, is about 1/2" thread length. It is about halfway down the block, about 4" above the oil pan.
atc250r
Staff member
Someone showed me the method that mitsuturbo is talking about many years ago and I have been doing them that way ever since. It does sound like a t-belt issue to me too.
John
John
Dark_Horse
Well-known member
I quickly checked the timing last night and the cam gears line up perfectly. I will check the timing on the crank and oil pump to ensure they're good too later today.
In other news - started removing the exhaust manifold to swap to the 2G mani and broke a turbo bolt...So I'll be getting familiar with my drill to remove it. Turbo also appears to have a bit of shaft play, so I'm really curious to see what's going on with the turbine wheel and the O2 housing/O2 sensor.
I really wish I had DSMlink to make sure the O2's are cycling.
In other news - started removing the exhaust manifold to swap to the 2G mani and broke a turbo bolt...So I'll be getting familiar with my drill to remove it. Turbo also appears to have a bit of shaft play, so I'm really curious to see what's going on with the turbine wheel and the O2 housing/O2 sensor.
I really wish I had DSMlink to make sure the O2's are cycling.
Dark_Horse
Well-known member
Just got finished checking the timing on the crank, balance shaft belt and the oil pump. Everything is perfectly in time. I'm going to replace the exhaust manifold and the O2 housing to see if that helps.
Dark_Horse
Well-known member
Finally got around to pulling the manifold and turbo off. The turbo was completely shot. Compressor wheel was all chewed up with bent fins and some completely broken fins.
Am going to pick up an E16G and a 2G O2 housing to go with my 2G exhaust manifold.
EDIT: So I ended up with a tubular O2 housing instead since I didn't feel like messing around with potential boost creep problems. From what I could see, tubular flowed a low more than a 2G O2 housing anyway.
It's weird modding for good daily driving habits instead of just balls to the wall performance. I had to fight to keep myself from getting a 38mm external WG with a dump tube off the O2 housing.
Am going to pick up an E16G and a 2G O2 housing to go with my 2G exhaust manifold.
EDIT: So I ended up with a tubular O2 housing instead since I didn't feel like messing around with potential boost creep problems. From what I could see, tubular flowed a low more than a 2G O2 housing anyway.
It's weird modding for good daily driving habits instead of just balls to the wall performance. I had to fight to keep myself from getting a 38mm external WG with a dump tube off the O2 housing.
Last edited:
Dark_Horse
Well-known member
It took a few weeks, but I have finally gotten all of the parts needed to get the car back to 100% running shape.
A week ago, I installed new KYB GR2 front struts in hopes that would fix the bouncing front end. The front strut mounts were cracked and looked like they may fall apart any day, so I replaced those too. Hopefully that will also fix the clunk in the front end whenever the car went over bumps. Scary as hell to think that I drove the car 1,000 miles on strut mounts that looked like they may fall apart any day.
I also applied Leatherique to the seats in an effort to get them to feel/look better. That stuff works great! The seats were very hard and the leather looked dull. I tried cleaning with other leather cleaner, but it didn't do anything. I applied the Leatherique restorer and followed up with Leatherique cleaning solution and the seats not only look 10x better, they are soft again too.
I have also picked up the following and will be installing later this week:
MHI E16G turbo with 34mm flapper
2G exhaust manifold
Tubular O2 housing
New Bosch O2 sensor
Galant EPROM ECU with V3 ECMlink
Stainless exhaust manifold studs/bolts
New valve cover
Brass inserts both for the shifter base & the cable linkage
Non-cruise throttle cable
Evo8 injectors
KYB GR2 rear shocks
90 OFH with oil cooler
EGR elim plate
3" catalytic converter (3" exhaust on the car doesn't have one and it won't pass emissions)
I'll get around to installing all these parts this weekend and will take some more pix of the progress.
A week ago, I installed new KYB GR2 front struts in hopes that would fix the bouncing front end. The front strut mounts were cracked and looked like they may fall apart any day, so I replaced those too. Hopefully that will also fix the clunk in the front end whenever the car went over bumps. Scary as hell to think that I drove the car 1,000 miles on strut mounts that looked like they may fall apart any day.
I also applied Leatherique to the seats in an effort to get them to feel/look better. That stuff works great! The seats were very hard and the leather looked dull. I tried cleaning with other leather cleaner, but it didn't do anything. I applied the Leatherique restorer and followed up with Leatherique cleaning solution and the seats not only look 10x better, they are soft again too.
I have also picked up the following and will be installing later this week:
MHI E16G turbo with 34mm flapper
2G exhaust manifold
Tubular O2 housing
New Bosch O2 sensor
Galant EPROM ECU with V3 ECMlink
Stainless exhaust manifold studs/bolts
New valve cover
Brass inserts both for the shifter base & the cable linkage
Non-cruise throttle cable
Evo8 injectors
KYB GR2 rear shocks
90 OFH with oil cooler
EGR elim plate
3" catalytic converter (3" exhaust on the car doesn't have one and it won't pass emissions)
I'll get around to installing all these parts this weekend and will take some more pix of the progress.
Dark_Horse
Well-known member
1 step forward and 10 steps back.
So yesterday, I spent 4 hours trying to drill out the 2 broken exhaust manifold studs. I don't know what the exhaust manifold bolts were made of, but it may as well have been some indestructible metal. I went through 5 cobalt drill bits and wasn't able to drill farther than 1/4 inch into 1 bolt (have another inch or so to go). At the rate I was going, it would take 20-30 cobalt drill bits to get those damn bolts out...I finally threw in the towel and decided to buy another stock head instead of wasting anymore $$ on drill bits.
I started in on removing the head and broke the wires to the water neck too. By that point, I'd just about had it with the car, so I called it a day.
So now, I need to find a new stock head and I may as well throw on a BSEK and a new timing belt/tensioner etc.
On the plus side, I did install the shifter cable brass bushings, EPROM ECU/DSMlink & a non-cruise throttle cable. Amazing how much room there is on the passenger side of the engine bay with all the emissions crap removed & the cruise control junk. Just gotta block the EGR, remove/block the FIAV and relocate the battery to the trunk to really clean it up. Am also considering removing the AC to clean it up even more. Don't really need AC in Colorado except for a few weeks a year IMHO.
So yesterday, I spent 4 hours trying to drill out the 2 broken exhaust manifold studs. I don't know what the exhaust manifold bolts were made of, but it may as well have been some indestructible metal. I went through 5 cobalt drill bits and wasn't able to drill farther than 1/4 inch into 1 bolt (have another inch or so to go). At the rate I was going, it would take 20-30 cobalt drill bits to get those damn bolts out...I finally threw in the towel and decided to buy another stock head instead of wasting anymore $$ on drill bits.
I started in on removing the head and broke the wires to the water neck too. By that point, I'd just about had it with the car, so I called it a day.
So now, I need to find a new stock head and I may as well throw on a BSEK and a new timing belt/tensioner etc.
On the plus side, I did install the shifter cable brass bushings, EPROM ECU/DSMlink & a non-cruise throttle cable. Amazing how much room there is on the passenger side of the engine bay with all the emissions crap removed & the cruise control junk. Just gotta block the EGR, remove/block the FIAV and relocate the battery to the trunk to really clean it up. Am also considering removing the AC to clean it up even more. Don't really need AC in Colorado except for a few weeks a year IMHO.
Dark_Horse
Well-known member
It took a few weeks, but I finally drilled out the broken exhaust manifold studs. Once I realize that when drilling in metal, you have to go slow - well, it made a world of difference. I didn't break any drill bits, and all it took was 2 bits and I was far enough into the stud that a screw extractor worked.
Threw in some new exhaust manifold studs, a new exhaust manifold gasket, my 2G manifold and some new exhaust manifold nuts before it got too cold outside to continue. There's still a couple of things left to do before she's ready to drive, but it's all downhill from here!
Threw in some new exhaust manifold studs, a new exhaust manifold gasket, my 2G manifold and some new exhaust manifold nuts before it got too cold outside to continue. There's still a couple of things left to do before she's ready to drive, but it's all downhill from here!
Olson
Well-known member
Lookin good dude. Invest in some carbide bits. There pricy but there deff worth the extra money.
Dark_Horse
Well-known member
After a month of slacking off, I finally had some time over the weekend to work on the car. I slapped on the oil and water lines to the E16G and bolted it onto the manifold. Toybreaker came over in the late afternoon to help me solder some new connectors on the water neck.
All that's left to do is bolt up the O2 housing, install turbo oil drain, valve cover & valve cover gaskets, reinstall the radiator and replace all of the coolant system hoses. Hopefully this next weekend will be nice enough outside that I can spend a few hours putting her all back together.
All that's left to do is bolt up the O2 housing, install turbo oil drain, valve cover & valve cover gaskets, reinstall the radiator and replace all of the coolant system hoses. Hopefully this next weekend will be nice enough outside that I can spend a few hours putting her all back together.
Dark_Horse
Well-known member
It's been a few months since I updated and since January, I have done the following:
Replaced most of the coolant lines, installed DSMlink, replaced the water pump, installed a new timing belt, installed new O2 housing, new O2 sensor, new battery tie-down, replaced the valve cover & installed new VC gaskets, found a stock oil return line & installed it. toybreaker reminded me to check the oil cooler bolt and when I touched it, the damn thing wasn't even finger tight. I have no clue how the car made it back from TX without dumping all the oil on the road. Bought a new O-ring for it and threw some blue lock-tite on it and torqued back down to 31ft-lbs.
She was all back together and I decided it was time to start her up this past weekend. She fired up ok, but for some reason, my O2 sensor only cycles some of the time. Sometimes it doesn't cycle at idle and other times it does. It seems so random. Yesterday, I started it up and the O2 cycled just fine for a couple minutes and then it just stopped cycling and remained at 0.02 volts. I idled the car until it was up to temp figuring that the O2 would maybe start up again...But nope. So I shut the car off, waited 1 minute and started it back up and the O2 cycled again for another few minutes and then stopped cycling once again and went back to 0.02 volts.
So at this point, I'm thinking that there is either a short somewhere, or there's a gigantic exhaust leak. My only other idea is that using an Ebay stainless O2 housing was not a good idea. Any other ideas?
Oh, BTW - the awful noise that only happened after 3500RPM was the rear balance shaft. It was 360 degrees out. When I did the timing belt, I fixed that and the car runs just fine all the way up to 4000RPM, which is as high as I've taken it so far.
Replaced most of the coolant lines, installed DSMlink, replaced the water pump, installed a new timing belt, installed new O2 housing, new O2 sensor, new battery tie-down, replaced the valve cover & installed new VC gaskets, found a stock oil return line & installed it. toybreaker reminded me to check the oil cooler bolt and when I touched it, the damn thing wasn't even finger tight. I have no clue how the car made it back from TX without dumping all the oil on the road. Bought a new O-ring for it and threw some blue lock-tite on it and torqued back down to 31ft-lbs.
She was all back together and I decided it was time to start her up this past weekend. She fired up ok, but for some reason, my O2 sensor only cycles some of the time. Sometimes it doesn't cycle at idle and other times it does. It seems so random. Yesterday, I started it up and the O2 cycled just fine for a couple minutes and then it just stopped cycling and remained at 0.02 volts. I idled the car until it was up to temp figuring that the O2 would maybe start up again...But nope. So I shut the car off, waited 1 minute and started it back up and the O2 cycled again for another few minutes and then stopped cycling once again and went back to 0.02 volts.
So at this point, I'm thinking that there is either a short somewhere, or there's a gigantic exhaust leak. My only other idea is that using an Ebay stainless O2 housing was not a good idea. Any other ideas?
Oh, BTW - the awful noise that only happened after 3500RPM was the rear balance shaft. It was 360 degrees out. When I did the timing belt, I fixed that and the car runs just fine all the way up to 4000RPM, which is as high as I've taken it so far.
Dark_Horse
Well-known member
It's been forever since I updated this thread. So many things have been fixed or changed since the last update.
1. Over the summer, I replaced the front struts, strut mounts and rear shocks.
2. Threw an EVO MAF in to replace the stock MAF
3. Re-replaced the O2 sensor. The brand new Bosch unit I installed had a faulty heater wire, so it would cycle for a few minutes and then cut out completely. I put in a Denso O2 sensor and it worked perfectly.
4. Thanks to thepyro1 (Alvin), the axle seals have been replaced, and the drivers axle was replaced
5. Welded a catalytic converter into the exhaust system (thanks again to Alvin who showed me how to weld)
6. Bought some snow tires to replace the POS tires that were on it
7. Replaced 2 wheel studs that had broken off
A few weeks ago, I finally DROVE THE DAMN CAR TO/FROM WORK for the first time! In the snow too! The car is sooooo much fun to drive in the snow. While everyone else was slipping and sliding, I was drifting around corners and generally having a good time.
Things left to do:
1. Figure out where the damn boost leak is coming from!
2. Install new IAC/ISC since mine is not working anymore.
3. Replace the shifter bushings with a Symborski kit.
4. Replace the knock sensor, since mine has leaked out black goo.
5. Replace the banjo bolts/crush washers on the oil lines, since mine leak at the turbo fitting.
6. Get an alignment
7. Move battery to firewall, or possibly trunk so I can run a DSM intake pipe.
I have the knock sensor and banjo bolts. I just need to find time to install them...Hopefully this weekend will be nice enough to wrench outside without freezing my nuts off. Once those 2 things are fixed, I'm going to FINALLY get an emissions inspection so I can legally drive the car!
1. Over the summer, I replaced the front struts, strut mounts and rear shocks.
2. Threw an EVO MAF in to replace the stock MAF
3. Re-replaced the O2 sensor. The brand new Bosch unit I installed had a faulty heater wire, so it would cycle for a few minutes and then cut out completely. I put in a Denso O2 sensor and it worked perfectly.
4. Thanks to thepyro1 (Alvin), the axle seals have been replaced, and the drivers axle was replaced
5. Welded a catalytic converter into the exhaust system (thanks again to Alvin who showed me how to weld)
6. Bought some snow tires to replace the POS tires that were on it
7. Replaced 2 wheel studs that had broken off
A few weeks ago, I finally DROVE THE DAMN CAR TO/FROM WORK for the first time! In the snow too! The car is sooooo much fun to drive in the snow. While everyone else was slipping and sliding, I was drifting around corners and generally having a good time.
Things left to do:
1. Figure out where the damn boost leak is coming from!
2. Install new IAC/ISC since mine is not working anymore.
3. Replace the shifter bushings with a Symborski kit.
4. Replace the knock sensor, since mine has leaked out black goo.
5. Replace the banjo bolts/crush washers on the oil lines, since mine leak at the turbo fitting.
6. Get an alignment
7. Move battery to firewall, or possibly trunk so I can run a DSM intake pipe.
I have the knock sensor and banjo bolts. I just need to find time to install them...Hopefully this weekend will be nice enough to wrench outside without freezing my nuts off. Once those 2 things are fixed, I'm going to FINALLY get an emissions inspection so I can legally drive the car!
I finally got my car back today and I will have a laundry list of stuff to do.
1.detail and vacuum (major scrub down)
2.replace the fuel injector that keeps giving me a hard time
3. Get a radio
4. Oil change
5. Win the lotto
6. Look into making the car breath better i.e. intake / exhuast
7. Look into the driver's door issue (not engaging seat belt,stock alarm goes off when I unlock it)
8. Pray and thank GOD I Have my whip back
9. ??? I know that is something else...
1.detail and vacuum (major scrub down)
2.replace the fuel injector that keeps giving me a hard time
3. Get a radio
4. Oil change
5. Win the lotto
6. Look into making the car breath better i.e. intake / exhuast
7. Look into the driver's door issue (not engaging seat belt,stock alarm goes off when I unlock it)
8. Pray and thank GOD I Have my whip back
9. ??? I know that is something else...
stealthtt24
Well-known member
Good to hear! Question... you say you had a bouncing front end, did it get fixed when you replaced the struts and strut mounts?
