JDM RS bumper question

[bazeng]

The extra vent is a seperate bit of plastic with a rear metal bracket supporting it.

As for that graphic file, its nice but its not accurate. Facelifts do not have the bonnet vents nor the extra vent. They have the Jspec bumper with facelift foggies. The bonnet is the same. Only the RS's and Monte's have the extra vent on the bumper and the bonnet vents, and only the late model RS's came with those, the early (89) rs came with no vents and no strip on the bumper, I dont even think they had the facelift foggies either.

 

i love my Kouki front bumper, the extra vents in the RS bumper are not really my style or worth the extra money that the rs bumpers go for.

 

[misterfixit]

If it was built after 89.10 its a facelift (projector fogs model) 220ps
if it was built after 90.10 ans its manual its a "evo zero." with 240ps and the "rs" kit.

HO5tyl is correct, but in addition there are three specs of RS. 88.2 (205ps) pre facelift. 89.10 (220ps) first facelift, then 90.10 (240ps) with vents and all that jazz.

The automatics were introduced much later, i'll have trawl the manuals and find out when.

Rich

Quoting H05TYL:
That's all well and good except it's wrong.

Well some of it...

The extra vent on the bumper, and bonnet vents are only found on Evo0 (510's, 16G, 4 bolt, etc) spec models, there are facelift vr4's, and even facelift RS's that do not have them.

 

[H05TYL]

If it was built after 89.10 its a facelift (projector fogs model) 220ps
if it was built after 90.10 ans its manual its a "evo zero." with 240ps and the "rs" kit.

HO5tyl is correct, but in addition there are three specs of RS. 88.2 (205ps) pre facelift. 89.10 (220ps) first facelift, then 90.10 (240ps) with vents and all that jazz.

The automatics were introduced much later, i'll have trawl the manuals and find out when.

Rich




This is correct. I've lost track of the number of times I've tried to clear this up and no-one listens /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

One more time:
88.2 205ps RS, 14b, 450's, 3 bolt mech lsd, no vents, spotlights with turn signals in.
89.10 220ps RS, 14b, 450's, 3 bolt mech lsd, no vents, projector spotlights.
90.10 240ps RS, 16G, 510's, 4 bolt mech lsd, vents, projector spotlights.

There are non-RS versions of each of the above, which have climate a/c (though some very early vr4's only had on/off a/c), electric windows, etc, and viscous lsd's with 4ws.


Any idea where the extra 15ps come from for the facelift vr4's? Is it just different ecu mapping?

 

[RedTwo]

I think you've all misread the text up there. It says facelift bonnet, as in the facelift version of the bonnet (ie: there are two types of bonnet). Not bonnet you will find on all vehicles made after the facelift, as there's at least 2 facelifts for the VR4, which doesn't take into account the US VR4 changes/facelifts.

I was trying to simplify this whole 'exlusive RS only' body/drivetrain part shenanigans that's going on. I can sell people a RS bumper but it's not going to have any extra vents in it, doesn't mean it's not off an RS though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

For example not all AMG galants come with AMG Galant body parts. Apart from a one or two bits, the Type 2 (SNGS and SRGS made from '91 on) AMG Galant looks as restrained as any other E33A.

My bad for using facelift, as it is vague but I refuse to say any body parts are 'RS' like they are exlusive RS parts (unless it's the 3 bolt 3.909 rear diff I've just found in CAPS /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) and I'm not so keen on the 'Evo 0' nickname either.

The bumpers, bonnets, turbos, injectors, drive ratios, etc all changed in 9008.1 for the E39A SNPF/LNPF and the E38A SNPF4, but the SNPF4 had changed to 4 bolt 3.909 in 8910.1. Autos were released in 8910.1 as well as the E39A SNPF4, which is almost a contradiction in terms, like the RS-2 from late CP9A Evos. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

The E38A Got a new ECU each time the power went up 8802.1, 8910.1 and 9008.1, so new fuel/timing maps is a probability

 

[TakumiJr]

Did all pre-facelift come with projectors fogs or not? Looks like my bumper is a jdm pre-facelift with projector fogs, maybe someone replace it with projector fogs?

 

[misterfixit]

87.10-89.9 dual board ecu-205ps
89.10-90.9 single board non eeprom ecu, 220ps. modular (faster reponse idle valve and control system)
90.10-> single board eeprom ecu 240ps for ALL manual versions. autos are different spec.

To address red two "The E38A Got a new ECU each time the power went up 8802.1, 8910.1 and 9008.1, so new fuel/timing maps is a probability " the rs was introduced in 88.2 before there was none. and the rs was ONLY a stripped out vr-4 (so base model galant of the time with vr-4 driveline.) 4 bolt driveline was introduced in 90.10 not 89.10. The manual cars only had three ecu options from the factory.

Rich

Quoting H05TYL:

If it was built after 89.10 its a facelift (projector fogs model) 220ps
if it was built after 90.10 ans its manual its a "evo zero." with 240ps and the "rs" kit.

HO5tyl is correct, but in addition there are three specs of RS. 88.2 (205ps) pre facelift. 89.10 (220ps) first facelift, then 90.10 (240ps) with vents and all that jazz.

The automatics were introduced much later, i'll have trawl the manuals and find out when.

Rich




This is correct. I've lost track of the number of times I've tried to clear this up and no-one listens /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

One more time:
88.2 205ps RS, 14b, 450's, 3 bolt mech lsd, no vents, spotlights with turn signals in.
89.10 220ps RS, 14b, 450's, 3 bolt mech lsd, no vents, projector spotlights.
90.10 240ps RS, 16G, 510's, 4 bolt mech lsd, vents, projector spotlights.

There are non-RS versions of each of the above, which have climate a/c (though some very early vr4's only had on/off a/c), electric windows, etc, and viscous lsd's with 4ws.


Any idea where the extra 15ps come from for the facelift vr4's? Is it just different ecu mapping?

 

[fuel]

Quoting TakumiJr:
Did all pre-facelift come with projectors fogs or not? Looks like my bumper is a jdm pre-facelift with projector fogs, maybe someone replace it with projector fogs?





For the jap spec bumpers, there is no difference between pre-facelift or facelift bumpers.. yours is simply a jap spec bumper with facelift projector spotlamps, suggesting it's come from a facelifted model (october '89 onwards) VR-4, VZ-S, VX-S or 91 onwards E35A Vientos. VR-4s weren't the only one to get that bumper.

As mentioned above, the extra vents are only on the Evolution, Monte Carlo and some RS models. Same goes with the bonnet (hood) vents. There is no pre-facelift/facelift bonnet (hood) also, they're all the same.

There were only two cosmetic facelifts (ie pre-facelift/facelift which took place in October '89), but there seems to be three mechanical facelifts.

Nikk, I would say that extra 15hp comes from the 16g as opposed to the 14b.

 

[fuel]

Quoting misterfixit:
87.10-89.9 dual board ecu-205ps
89.10-90.9 single board non eeprom ecu, 220ps. modular (faster reponse idle valve and control system)
90.10-> single board eeprom ecu 240ps for ALL manual versions. autos are different spec.

To address red two "The E38A Got a new ECU each time the power went up 8802.1, 8910.1 and 9008.1, so new fuel/timing maps is a probability " the rs was introduced in 88.2 before there was none. and the rs was ONLY a stripped out vr-4 (so base model galant of the time with vr-4 driveline.) 4 bolt driveline was introduced in 90.10 not 89.10. The manual cars only had three ecu options from the factory.

Rich





RS was available in both E38A and E39A, as well as options for air conditioning, power windows etc.. so in theory you could have an E39A RS with 4WD, air conditioning, power windows etc like the normal VR-4.

 

[H05TYL]

Quoting fuel:

Nikk, I would say that extra 15hp comes from the 16g as opposed to the 14b.



I was talking about the 15ps difference between pre and post facelift vr4's, both of which have 14b's, 450's, etc.

There's a 35ps difference between pre-facelift vr4's and "Evo0" vr4's with the 16G.

 

[RedTwo]

Quoting misterfixit:
87.10-89.9 dual board ecu-205ps
89.10-90.9 single board non eeprom ecu, 220ps. modular (faster reponse idle valve and control system)
90.10-> single board eeprom ecu 240ps for ALL manual versions. autos are different spec.

To address red two "The E38A Got a new ECU each time the power went up 8802.1, 8910.1 and 9008.1, so new fuel/timing maps is a probability " the rs was introduced in 88.2 before there was none. and the rs was ONLY a stripped out vr-4 (so base model galant of the time with vr-4 driveline.) 4 bolt driveline was introduced in 90.10 not 89.10. The manual cars only had three ecu options from the factory.

Rich




Another word or two between 'went up' and '8802.1, 8910.1 and 9008.1' would have made it clearer. I guess that's one more for proof reading! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Yes, you would expect the RS to have the same driveline as the ones they put on street cars, but then again it's at the forefront of their motor sports program and CAPS tells a different story:

Sorry for those that can't read Japanese, but you can match the PNC numbers to CAPS USA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

1: E38A SNPF4 Rear axle options;
8802.1-8909.3 BJ (equal length)
8910.1-9203.3 TJ (equal length)


2. E39A SNPF Rear axle options;
8809.1-9007.3 BJ (Viscous LSD)
8910.1-9007.3 BJ (equal length)
8910.1-9007.3 BJ (Viscous LSD)
9008.1-9203.3 TJ (Equal length)
9008.1-9203.3 TJ (Viscous LSD)


3. E38A SNPF4 Rear diff options (for shits and giggles check out #3 - a 3 bolt 3.909 ratio rear diff assembly as factory option)


The way I read that is the E38A switched to 4 bolt axles and 3.909 ratio in 8910.1 - a full 10 months before the E39A received them.


The E39A SNPF4 is a strange one. A brief check comes up with saying it came with an open rear diff and the standard gearbox but had no ABS and has manual windows.

 

[brisvr4]

Quoting fuel:
Quoting TakumiJr:
Did all pre-facelift come with projectors fogs or not? Looks like my bumper is a jdm pre-facelift with projector fogs, maybe someone replace it with projector fogs?





For the jap spec bumpers, there is no difference between pre-facelift or facelift bumpers.. yours is simply a jap spec bumper with facelift projector spotlamps, suggesting it's come from a facelifted model (october '89 onwards) VR-4, VZ-S, VX-S or 91 onwards E35A Vientos. VR-4s weren't the only one to get that bumper.





Actually Pre-facelift bars do differ slightly from facelift. The Pre-facelift has a vertical piece of reo behind the spotlights which needs to be cut out if you want to fit facelift projectors.

 

[bazeng]

I was just about to add that comment also!

I've had some spotlight (facelift) foggies installed on a prefacelift indicator type bumper which didn't fit and required modification. Apart from that everything is the same.

Did RS models come in e39a?

 

[fuel]

they sure did..

(sorry for large image.. linked off another site)

 

[bazeng]

Thats sweet.

 

[RedTwo]

E39A-0029225 is an E39A SNPF4, aka RS. In fact it's the last one built. 9203.3.

 

[NZ VR4 RS]

im going to throw in my 2 cents on this one, the above pic is off my site and i have had it on there for about 7 years.

over the years i have had and been in hundreds of discussions about what is an rs and for me it comes back to its got to be an E38A.

E38a was a model number created for the rs version of the E39a Galant.

i know what the brochure says but rs dont have 4ws,power windows etc that the e39 do.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Not to further complicate things, but the Galant GSX (non-turbo) in the US is also designated as an E38A. While it does share some things with the JDM RS models, it also has parts stolen from other USDM galants. It really seems to boil down to the fact that there are two chassis codes that have nothing to do with the engine placed in them.

The chassis code is really just that - the unibody chassis and suspension arrangement, regardless of the cosmetic and convenience features or powerplant. Any "RS" model that included 4WS would be by definition, an E39A.

E38A - Galant, AWD, no 4WS
E39A - Galant, AWD, 4WS

I believe if you look around in some other countries where VR-4's were sold and badged as other brands, you'll find some other variations of the E38A.

"Rallye Sport" (RS) just means what it always has - a stripped down model sometimes with some racing features, and cheap crap substituted in for everything that will be tossed in the trash anyway (cloth seats, manual windows, steel wheels, etc)

 

[misterfixit]

Qoutong red two
"The way I read that is the E38A switched to 4 bolt axles and 3.909 ratio in 8910.1 - a full 10 months before the E39A received them."

not true.

90.03 was the changeover for the vr4 rs.





Thats from the tech information manual.

Richard

 

[misterfixit]

Quoting Nzvr4rs
"im going to throw in my 2 cents on this one, the above pic is off my site and i have had it on there for about 7 years.

over the years i have had and been in hundreds of discussions about what is an rs and for me it comes back to its got to be an E38A.

E38a was a model number created for the rs version of the E39a Galant.

i know what the brochure says but rs dont have 4ws,power windows etc that the e39 do."

Well i think we need to clear up some stuff.
You may have had the brochure for 7 years, but it came off the archive at g force hokkaido. the brochure you have is a 1989.10 car.
here's the g-force archive page.






so credit to G-force hokkaido.

Now number 2. vr4rs = e38a?
No here's why.




Look at the names and chassis codes! vr4 rs is e38a and e39a. but you will also see that e37a is 4wd also!

Now else where in the world there were many instances of different drivtrains mated with different bodies. As the next post said E38A refers to CHASSIS, but also to engine SIZE only. Ie e38a =2000cc 4wd, e39a = 2000cc 4wd 4ws, e37a = 1755cc 4wd e35a = 1836cc 2wd.

Here to illustrate from the shop manual (not the us one, but the one that covers everywhere except jdm land)

and to help decode the model code (this really tells what a car IS)


So after all the miss information. Please only post with evidence. this discuission hurts my head it happens so many times.

Rich