How rare do you guys think GVR4s are?

[H05TYL]

Quote:
Try to think globally, not just the US. You DO realise that there are only 3000 in the WORLD?



er, + ~25,000 JDM VR4 + ~2800 JDM E38A VR4 RS + ~1100 JDM ZR4 + 300 Aussie VR4 + however many euro ones.

I think I've probably driven more vr4's than many of you have even seen in the flesh/metal/whatever. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[GIjoe]

^umm, thats cool, but they arent limited and numbered. I personally think JDM VR4s are much better than the usdm ones, BUT they arent numbered, they wont be that special in the future. Sure some nice, perfect condition VR4 RS's or monte carlos or even regular full option JDM VR4s will be worth something, but the fact that the usdm VR4s are numbered, and the only official left hand drive with special options like lether etc, will be the ones to hold value amongst car collectors in the futur.

 

[DR1665]

Quoting turbowop:
Of the probably ten or so I know of locally, only one is owned by somebody I wouldn't consider an enthusiast. The rest of the ones I know of in the PNW are owned by enthusiasts as well. It's rare I ever see one I don't already know about.



Last time I counted, there were 10 or 11 here in the Phoenix area. I've met every owner (although one refused to own up to it, she probably thought I was a stalker). At one point, my friend Keith and I represented five, but he sold one.

Since I've been reaching out to Mitsubishi owners around the world for Gearbox Magazine, I've found myself a little self-conscious about mentioning badge number. When you think about how many of these cars were made back in the day on a global scale, it kind of makes the badge numbers here in the States seem kind cheesy. I use the numbers because it's a fun way to keep track of them here.

FIA WRC Group A homologation required a minimum of 5000 specimens to be sold each year, so figure - at a minimum - Mitsubishi had to make at least 25,000. They likely made more of them.

I'll play the rarity game because, well, relatively speaking, these cars aren't exactly common, but more of the value - to me anyway - comes from the fact these cars only exist because Mitsubishi wanted to race them in FIA sanctioned rally events. Someone here has a lead on FIA homologation papers for the Galant VR4 Evolution (which I desperately want to see) and, given the rules at the time, it's plausible that they actually existed. Now *that* would be a rare car.

Now that I think about it, "Evolution" was reserved for a special, very limited number of race trim models, limited to something like 500 per year. It's almost a shame to think that "Evolution" on all the Evos out there since, say, Evo II or III are pretty much a marketing gimmick and have nothing to do with actual Evolution status.

Take care of your GVR4s. Maintain them and keep them looking their best. The numbers will never increase. The trend is downward and, although you can probably find 5-7 in the US at any given moment for sale, it won't be that way forever.

 

[Hertz]

Someone has a lead on the homologation papers? They're hosted here. Click the library link up top.

 

[H05TYL]

Quoting DR1665:
Someone here has a lead on FIA homologation papers for the Galant VR4 Evolution (which I desperately want to see) and, given the rules at the time, it's plausible that they actually existed. Now *that* would be a rare car.

Now that I think about it, "Evolution" was reserved for a special, very limited number of race trim models, limited to something like 500 per year. It's almost a shame to think that "Evolution" on all the Evos out there since, say, Evo II or III are pretty much a marketing gimmick and have nothing to do with actual Evolution status.




Actually the evolution ruling was never allowed in GroupA, have a look at the homologation papers (they're on this forum somewhere) - the only evolution mentioned is "normal evolution of the type" rather than "sporting evolution of the type", it refers to the late '89 'face lifting' of the car (for which another full run of 5000 was required) and then another later 'face lifting' to vr4 evolution spec (another 5000 of which had to be built).

According to the papers there were at least 5097 vr4 evolutions built, so they're less rare than the US spec vr4's, however, I'd far rather have one of them than a US vr4 - to me the 'ultimate' version of the car is worth much more than a numbered badge...

 

[swe_gvr4_1991]

rare? we have 2 street legal GVR4's here in sweden. mine and mr. wolfys.
i wanna import a 2nd GVR4, but lack the garage space...
there are alot of galant GSX tho. E38 NT.

 

[Turboman_456]

The VR-4 is something you don't see everyday and I drive for a living. Even when I had a WRX I felt a little envious when I saw a VR-4. The VR-4's street status is iconic because they are the few. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif

 

[fuel]

Quoting GIjoe:
^umm, thats cool, but they arent limited and numbered. I personally thing JDM VR4s are much better than the usdm ones, BUT they arent numbered, they wont be that special in the future. Sure some nice, perfect condition VR4 RS or monte carlos or even regular full option JDM VR4s will be worth something, but the fact that the usdm VR4s are numbered, and the only official left hand drive with special options like lether etc, will be the ones to hold value amongst car collectors in the futur.



Each to their own.. I would far prefer a Evolution, Monte Carlo or RS JDM VR-4 over an Aus spec or US spec VR-4 - the number means nothing to me, why sacrifice most of the good things in a VR-4 for a number?

Go find a factory original US VR-4 with 510cc injectors, bigger intercooler (bigger than standard JDM type), larger intercooler piping, 4 bolt LSD rear end, higher flowing rear muffler, rear wiper, monsoon shields, dash pop up box, digital climate control air conditioning, close ratio gearbox etc etc list goes on.. that a FACTORY JDM Evolution VR-4 has.

 

Quoting DR1665:
Quoting turbowop:
Of the probably ten or so I know of locally, only one is owned by somebody I wouldn't consider an enthusiast. The rest of the ones I know of in the PNW are owned by enthusiasts as well. It's rare I ever see one I don't already know about.



Last time I counted, there were 10 or 11 here in the Phoenix area. I've met every owner (although one refused to own up to it, she probably thought I was a stalker). At one point, my friend Keith and I represented five, but he sold one.





liar! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif you haven't met me yet

 

[RedTwo]

Quoting GIjoe:
I personally thing JDM VR4s are much better than the usdm ones, BUT they arent numbered, they wont be that special in the future.



Every JDM car is numbered! These ones start at E39A-0000001 and go up in sequence, it's stamped into the firewall so people can't steal the badges /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[SmoothCustomer]

You guys are lucky I'm late to the party and it's late in the evening. I had a great idea to figure out how many were left (ok, it wasn't actually MY idea but I made it kind of realistic...maybe?) and Hertz really tried, but it ain't gonna happen. I will still debate the fact that it makes sense to find out how many definitely don't exist.

 

[H05TYL]

haha, good point RedTwo, I own 0010362 and 0020096 - might have to put that in my sig

 

[GIjoe]

Quoting fuel:
Quoting GIjoe:
^umm, thats cool, but they arent limited and numbered. I personally thing JDM VR4s are much better than the usdm ones, BUT they arent numbered, they wont be that special in the future. Sure some nice, perfect condition VR4 RS or monte carlos or even regular full option JDM VR4s will be worth something, but the fact that the usdm VR4s are numbered, and the only official left hand drive with special options like lether etc, will be the ones to hold value amongst car collectors in the futur.



Each to their own.. I would far prefer a Evolution, Monte Carlo or RS JDM VR-4 over an Aus spec or US spec VR-4 - the number means nothing to me, why sacrifice most of the good things in a VR-4 for a number?

Go find a factory original US VR-4 with 510cc injectors, bigger intercooler (bigger than standard JDM type), larger intercooler piping, 4 bolt LSD rear end, higher flowing rear muffler, rear wiper, monsoon shields, dash pop up box, digital climate control air conditioning, close ratio gearbox etc etc list goes on.. that a FACTORY JDM Evolution VR-4 has.



"I personally think JDM VR4s are much better than the usdm ones"
I agree with you man. to me the ultimate vr4 is the jdm one (almost bought one in london 2 yrs ago!!!) but now that I have a usdm vr4, Ive learned to appreciate its history, and the fact that its numbered + thats its sort of a dsm ( i know its not, but still) and all these details. These are the things that will matter a lot for car collectors in 15yrs.
Now, rallye nuts will definetly go for a JDM VR4 (and so will I, cuz there are simply the best).

 

[GIjoe]

[quote name=fuel
Go find a factory original US VR-4 with 510cc injectors, bigger intercooler (bigger than standard JDM type), larger intercooler piping, 4 bolt LSD rear end, higher flowing rear muffler, rear wiper, monsoon shields, dash pop up box, digital climate control air conditioning, close ratio gearbox etc etc list goes on.. that a FACTORY JDM Evolution VR-4 has.



Oh yeah, and you go find that exact car thats LEFT HAND DRIVE. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[DR1665]

Quoting mikewitdaspike:
Quoting DR1665:
Quoting turbowop:
Of the probably ten or so I know of locally, only one is owned by somebody I wouldn't consider an enthusiast. The rest of the ones I know of in the PNW are owned by enthusiasts as well. It's rare I ever see one I don't already know about.



Last time I counted, there were 10 or 11 here in the Phoenix area. I've met every owner (although one refused to own up to it, she probably thought I was a stalker). At one point, my friend Keith and I represented five, but he sold one.





liar! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif you haven't met me yet



Last time I counted, you didn't have one yet. So there! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hsugh.gif

 

[DR1665]

Quoting Hertz:
Someone has a lead on the homologation papers? They're hosted here. Click the library link up top.


Would you believe I've never noticed that link until today. I thought everything was on YOUR page. #fail

(reading now)

 

[H05TYL]

Quoting GIjoe:
[quote name=fuel
Go find a factory original US VR-4 with 510cc injectors, bigger intercooler (bigger than standard JDM type), larger intercooler piping, 4 bolt LSD rear end, higher flowing rear muffler, rear wiper, monsoon shields, dash pop up box, digital climate control air conditioning, close ratio gearbox etc etc list goes on.. that a FACTORY JDM Evolution VR-4 has.



Oh yeah, and you go find that exact car thats LEFT HAND DRIVE. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



why would you want the steering wheel on the wrong side of the car? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

'Collectors' may go nuts over a badge on the dash, but they also go nuts over original hose clips and cars that have been put in storage when brand new and never driven (what a waste).

IMO collectors in the future who want a dead stock vr4/evo/skyline/wrx/etc are missing the point - these cars are popular because they respond so well to modification, the whole culture is built around modifying and (hopefully) improving these cars - ignoring that is ignoring what made these cars special in the first place!

 

[Hittman]

I live in NORTHERN Va...I have never actually SEEN another VR4 on the road. ever. I know that there are a couple guys around that have em...but again I have never seen em.

It's cool because I get ALOT of looks from unsuspecting people...usually not young kid ricers...but mostly older people that are driving more "refined" cars. I dont know if they're thinking:

A.) What teh sh*t is that?

or

B.) Oh snap a VR4!


Now as for the rare arguement...I'd say if you have a dependable running VR4 (Replace all the bad sectors of the car/engine) and its spotless on the exterior and interior...with low-ish miles...THAT would be the definition of a RARE VR4

 

[misterfixit]

Usdm HISTORY?

The numbering bears no relation the the series number, the pedigree is what. The JDm ones were the ones used as the base vehicle for the rallycars, mr gravels car is from japan and them prepared by ralliart in the uk, as were all the works rallycars group N and group A. Mitsubishi had affiliated teams throughout the world running group n cars, but the group A cars were prepared in the UK from jdm stock.

The homologation papers build numbers are here:






These are in the order they are shown in the homologation papers.

As I understand it the last 7 digits of the us vin and the jdm vin are a simple series number that is to say for a jdm car the one that went down the line before it could have been a e33a and the one after an e35a. The splurge that tells you what the car is is noting to do with the order the cars came off the line.

But to be sure the best way would be break the chassis number database out of caps. that would be the definitive way to see how many vr4s were made. vr4 was only sold in japan, australia, us and the gulf countries and i think hongkong. europe never officially saw it. we got the gti16v.

To my mind yes they are rare. and its a dumb argument about wether they are or not. Are they appreciated? well i guess the only thing that matters to me is yes by me. But tell you one thing, ive spent a year looking for ANY e3x galant here in the uk and only seen 2 for sale.

/rant off

Rich




Quoting GIjoe:
Quoting fuel:
Quoting GIjoe:
^umm, thats cool, but they arent limited and numbered. I personally thing JDM VR4s are much better than the usdm ones, BUT they arent numbered, they wont be that special in the future. Sure some nice, perfect condition VR4 RS or monte carlos or even regular full option JDM VR4s will be worth something, but the fact that the usdm VR4s are numbered, and the only official left hand drive with special options like lether etc, will be the ones to hold value amongst car collectors in the futur.



Each to their own.. I would far prefer a Evolution, Monte Carlo or RS JDM VR-4 over an Aus spec or US spec VR-4 - the number means nothing to me, why sacrifice most of the good things in a VR-4 for a number?

Go find a factory original US VR-4 with 510cc injectors, bigger intercooler (bigger than standard JDM type), larger intercooler piping, 4 bolt LSD rear end, higher flowing rear muffler, rear wiper, monsoon shields, dash pop up box, digital climate control air conditioning, close ratio gearbox etc etc list goes on.. that a FACTORY JDM Evolution VR-4 has.



"I personally think JDM VR4s are much better than the usdm ones"
I agree with you man. to me the ultimate vr4 is the jdm one (almost bought one in london 2 yrs ago!!!) but now that I have a usdm vr4, Ive learned to appreciate its history, and the fact that its numbered + thats its sort of a dsm ( i know its not, but still) and all these details. These are the things that will matter a lot for car collectors in 15yrs.
Now, rallye nuts will definetly go for a JDM VR4 (and so will I, cuz there are simply the best).

 

[misterfixit]

both left and right hand drive had uk plates. have to hit up our finish member to find out what his vin looks like? that'll spell the origin of the lhd shells.

Rich