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Guess What? Another clutch question/problem
- Thread starter rdomeck
- Start date
turbowop
Well-known member
I wouldn't say never. As long as the fork is in the correct position with the trans bolted up, whether the fork and ball are new or used, all should be good.
From RRE
"The release bearing arm and the pivot ball will wear over time. Replacing both is one way to deal with the problem. Adding a washer or two under the arm is another way. DO NOT ADD A SHIM TO A NEW FORK AND BALL."
"The release bearing arm and the pivot ball will wear over time. Replacing both is one way to deal with the problem. Adding a washer or two under the arm is another way. DO NOT ADD A SHIM TO A NEW FORK AND BALL."
Jason G.
Well-known member
Quoting rdomeck:
Still having disengagement issues......I was adjusting the rod at the pedal out of the master and checking to make sure I could still push the slave in and once I hit the point of not being able to push the slave any more I backed it out to where I could.
That left me with a really low pedal and a lot of free play. And I could not get the car in gear while running. I adjusted the rod back into the master and got a much better pedal feel, but still not disengaging.
This seems backwards to me. Aren't you supposed to adjust the pedal rod in the master while checking the slave? Once the slave doesn't push back, then back the rod out?
Still having disengagement issues......I was adjusting the rod at the pedal out of the master and checking to make sure I could still push the slave in and once I hit the point of not being able to push the slave any more I backed it out to where I could.
That left me with a really low pedal and a lot of free play. And I could not get the car in gear while running. I adjusted the rod back into the master and got a much better pedal feel, but still not disengaging.
This seems backwards to me. Aren't you supposed to adjust the pedal rod in the master while checking the slave? Once the slave doesn't push back, then back the rod out?
rdomeck
Well-known member
Hmmm.....I kept adjusting the rod in and never got to the point were the slave would not push in. I suppose I could keep going in with it, but the pedal was only working the last 1/4 of the travel from the floor and I could still push the slave back in!
I'll be checking into things a little more this weekend.
I'll be checking into things a little more this weekend.
Jason G.
Well-known member
Quote:
Hmmm.....I kept adjusting the rod in and never got to the point were the slave would not push in. I suppose I could keep going in with it, but the pedal was only working the last 1/4 of the travel from the floor and I could still push the slave back in!
Threading the rod in (clockwise) should bring the engagement point up. If you can still push the slave in and still have enough rod on the pedal side, keep going in with it.
Hmmm.....I kept adjusting the rod in and never got to the point were the slave would not push in. I suppose I could keep going in with it, but the pedal was only working the last 1/4 of the travel from the floor and I could still push the slave back in!
Threading the rod in (clockwise) should bring the engagement point up. If you can still push the slave in and still have enough rod on the pedal side, keep going in with it.
turbowop
Well-known member
Quoting LIV4PSI:
From RRE
"The release bearing arm and the pivot ball will wear over time. Replacing both is one way to deal with the problem. Adding a washer or two under the arm is another way. DO NOT ADD A SHIM TO A NEW FORK AND BALL."
I speak from experience, not from a quote on the internet. As long as the fork is in the correct position, it will work. Shim or not, new or used ball and fork. If anything, adding too much shim could cause over-extension of the pressure plate fingers. That isn't the issue here.
OP, you can also back out the upper pedal stop to gain more throw if you haven't done that already.
From RRE
"The release bearing arm and the pivot ball will wear over time. Replacing both is one way to deal with the problem. Adding a washer or two under the arm is another way. DO NOT ADD A SHIM TO A NEW FORK AND BALL."
I speak from experience, not from a quote on the internet. As long as the fork is in the correct position, it will work. Shim or not, new or used ball and fork. If anything, adding too much shim could cause over-extension of the pressure plate fingers. That isn't the issue here.
OP, you can also back out the upper pedal stop to gain more throw if you haven't done that already.
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rdomeck
Well-known member
The upper pedal stop is out as much as it can be.......
turbowop
Well-known member
Which slave are you using? Green piston or red piston? The slave with the red anodized 3/4" piston will have more throw than the one with the green, 13/16" piston. The original slave in 1051 was a green unit. With a heavier clutch I had to use a red unit from an AWD DSM. Some GVR4's came with one, some the other. It was based on build date, but these days you never know since most have been replaced with something else.
Quoting turbowop:
I speak from experience, not from a quote on the internet. As long as the fork is in the correct position, it will work. Shim or not, new or used ball and fork.
The point of shimming the ball is to make up for missing material that has worn down due to use. It the pivot ball and fork are new, there is never a reason to need to shim them. Its a DSM band-aid type fix in the first place. I wasn't trying to say it was his problem, just saying that the shim was pointless.
OP, sorry for cluttering your thread. Just hoping to point others in the right direction if they come across this thread when searching.
I speak from experience, not from a quote on the internet. As long as the fork is in the correct position, it will work. Shim or not, new or used ball and fork.
The point of shimming the ball is to make up for missing material that has worn down due to use. It the pivot ball and fork are new, there is never a reason to need to shim them. Its a DSM band-aid type fix in the first place. I wasn't trying to say it was his problem, just saying that the shim was pointless.
OP, sorry for cluttering your thread. Just hoping to point others in the right direction if they come across this thread when searching.
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turbowop
Well-known member
I agree that the shim is pointless when a new fork and ball is used. My point was that it wasn't the issue in this case, so there was no reason to make a big deal out of it.
My post was a single sentence, simply stating that you are never supposed to shim a new fork and ball. Not sure how that was interpreted as "making a big deal out of it."I posted it for when others came across this thread when searching, as clutch issues are common. The RRE quote was just basically citing my source, so others would know it was reputable information.
My only intentions were to be helpful, and I hope my responses to you Mr. Wop haven't came across as argumentative, as that was never my intentions.
/end thread jack
My only intentions were to be helpful, and I hope my responses to you Mr. Wop haven't came across as argumentative, as that was never my intentions.
/end thread jack
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turbowop
Well-known member
"Never" is a strong word, amirite? Sheesh. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif
rdomeck
Well-known member
Quoting turbowop:
Which slave are you using? Green piston or red piston? The slave with the red anodized 3/4" piston will have more throw than the one with the green, 13/16" piston. The original slave in 1051 was a green unit. With a heavier clutch I had to use a red unit from an AWD DSM. Some GVR4's came with one, some the other. It was based on build date, but these days you never know since most have been replaced with something else.
So I am running a 5/8" bore. This is what was in the car and the new one from STM was the same bore. Now I'm a little confused by the above info. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong, but wouldn't the 13/16" have more throw than the 3/4"? It would be moving a higher volume of fluid?
The piston color in the slave is gold if that helps! Don't know what color the piston in the master without pulling it out.
I'll call my supplier in the morning and find a larger bore as I still feel this is my problem. Not enough travel!
Which slave are you using? Green piston or red piston? The slave with the red anodized 3/4" piston will have more throw than the one with the green, 13/16" piston. The original slave in 1051 was a green unit. With a heavier clutch I had to use a red unit from an AWD DSM. Some GVR4's came with one, some the other. It was based on build date, but these days you never know since most have been replaced with something else.
So I am running a 5/8" bore. This is what was in the car and the new one from STM was the same bore. Now I'm a little confused by the above info. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong, but wouldn't the 13/16" have more throw than the 3/4"? It would be moving a higher volume of fluid?
The piston color in the slave is gold if that helps! Don't know what color the piston in the master without pulling it out.
I'll call my supplier in the morning and find a larger bore as I still feel this is my problem. Not enough travel!
turbowop
Well-known member
5/8" bore? Are you talking about the master? The slave doesn't have the bore size embossed on it. The master does. And the only slave bore sizes I know of are red 3/4", green 13/16", and whatever the 2g AWD size is, which I think is even bigger. That's what guys use in conjunction with the 2g accumulator for the twin disks to make them more streetable. Or the Isuzu slave which is even bigger than that. The smaller the piston diameter on the slave, the farther it will move. I don't think you can get a different bore sized master, unless you pull one from a different car.
rdomeck
Well-known member
Yes, I was trying to post what an idiot I am and that I need to learn how to read and when I hit reply the server was down....Been reading even more on this and I will pull the slave down tomorrow and measure it. The piston is gold....So I'm not really sure what size it is! I did just replace it with a new one for what that's worth.
