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Fan issue! Please help!

GSTwithPSI

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230* is high for cruising temp, especially if you aren't beating the sh*t out of the car. It's hard to tell what's causing the cooling issue at cruise, especially since I don't know anything about the car. Can you post up a mod list, and maybe some under hood pics? All the maintenance on the car up to date?

As far as the idle temps go, they sound pretty normal to me. Maybe a bit on the high side. ECMlink says my car runs 200-206 consistently after sitting for a bit idling.
 

losermakesgood

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Mar 30, 2012
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Mishawaka, IN
All maintenance up to date. Compression, timing, etc is all good and proper. All mod parts are either new or less than a few hundred miles.

Egr block off
Fiav block off
New ISC
Ecmlink v3
20g turbo
190lph fuel pump rewired
660cc injectors
Vrsf 1g fmic
Scirocco radiator
180 thermostat
Dual 10" slim fans
Intake
3" turbo back no cat
DSS driveshaft
South Bend clutch/pressure plate

More odds and ends I'm sure. Been slowly getting the car back together and now in a hurry. Coolant system is the last thing stopping me. It's not the prettiest right now but I'm more focused on running right instead of looking pretty. As for cooling I have nothing to compare it to before to know if it was overheating then. Only thing I can think is the radiator sucks (ebay part?) If I get time tomorrow after packing I was going to swap in a 160 thermostat and see if that helps or points me in the right direction.

 

FlyingEagle

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THE Ottawa
Where is the second fan in that picture you have posted?

I see one fan on the puller side of the radiator.

Also, no shrouds in place to help pull heat from across the entire surface area of the radiator.

Right now you have localized, at best, draw across certain portions of the radiator.

Also, most guys here would likely post that there should be no need for a lower temp thermostat, especially for cars that see cold weather (never seeing hot enough coolant temps to enter the proper maps ... etc.)
 
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GSTwithPSI

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I think the picture is a little misleading. The Scirocco radiator is much more narrow than the stock radiator. He has the fan placed correctly, and it should definitely pull enough air to keep the car cool in the position it's in even without a shroud. Although, I personally would always use a shroud if the setup allows due to the reasons you mentioned.

Since the car seems to cool fine at idle, and not a cruise, I think the problem probably involves the tune. Typically, overheating issues would also show up at idle, and sometimes even be more pronounced when a cooling system component is to blame. If the car won't cool at speed under light loads, I find it hard to believe the radiator or thermostat are the problem. That's why I asked who tuned the car, and if you even have a WB to monitor AFRs with all the mods you have done.

If you do suspect the thermostat, just remove it and go drive the car. If the car still exhibits the same symptoms afterwards, it's clearly not the thermostat.
 

losermakesgood

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The car does have two fans. I took them off to redo the placement and see about fabbing a shroud if possible. But right now a shroud is probably not feasible. It is currently going through the process of being tuned remotely by a reputable dsm tuner. He wants me to get the cooling issue under control first before trying wot and such. I do have wideband. As for colder weather it won't be seeing colder weather because of my move. And I wouldn't care if I had to swap a thermostat every season. But I don't think that is the issue. I'm believing it's a matter of the size of the radiator. But I know there are a few on here that run similar setups with no issues. I can't go with stock or 1g setup due to the ic pipes. Would a civic half with triple core cool better? I don't see how a 160 thermostat and moving the two fans will lower the temps 40-50 degrees.
 

GSTwithPSI

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Just remove the thermostat completely and go drive the car. That will tell you whether it is bad or not.
 

losermakesgood

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The thermostat that is in there works. My problem is the high temperatures. I believe it is a combination of the radiator and fans. I just don't understand how I'm having issues with the temps when others have run this setup. I am limited on choices because of the ic pipes. But I don't have ac so that's a plus. Was wondering about a Honda triple core with 12 or 14 inch pusher.
 

turbowop

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The Scirocco radiator is a proven setup. Your problem lies elsewhere. And always use a puller if possible. They work waaaaaay better than a pusher.
 
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GSTwithPSI

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How do you know the thermostat works?

Think about what you're saying. The car only overheats at cruise. The fans don't have anything to do with cooling at cruise. That's left primarily to your water pump, thermostat and radiator. So, why would you think the fans have anything to do with your car overheating?

Pressure test the cooling system and see if there's a leak. If there's not, used a logical troubleshooting sequence to eliminate cooling system components. You can most likely eliminate the fans as being an issue already, so you need to check the T-stat.

If none of those components are bad, you need to start considering other factors that could lead to overheating at cruise. I would start with the tune, since it sounds like there pretty much isn't one done to the car currently. You said you have a WB, so what do your AFRs look like at cruise? Are they lean as hell?
 

FlyingEagle

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Air in the cooling system won't help things.

OEM thermostat currently in use, versus the mismatched, non-bypassed thermostat missing the jiggle valve?

Just to add to the fray of questions people might want answered.

GSTwithPSI has a very valid point about where the overheating is becoming the issue, tune being way off will lend to overheating, much like cooling system woes.

Wop's point about the Scirocco rad, is also very valid, as many people have used that setup, with the remainder of the control system operating within spec and able to maintain proper temps.

Thermostats have to be there to create a flow restriction, and allow the coolant to cycle into the radiator and take it's time to be cooled before going back into the motor. Remove the restriction and you get an overflow, and complete lack of time to cool the fluid while it is now, albeit for too short a period of time, within the radiator before being sucked back into the water pump/engine.
Thermostats and the saturation/radiation of heat from the radiator all play a tricky balance.
It's a bizarre process to try and put into words. Sometimes this is best left in text books.

So, what style of thermostat is installed and how's that tune?

Can you log what the AFR comes in at, when the car is overheating?

Would your logger read more accurately than your dash cluster? They are two separate sensors that send out signals after all.

Most properly functioning engines overheat at idle due to lower flow of air over the radiator/condenser, and or sticking thermostat's (they don't open properly given the temperatures that they are supposed to be governed by - but fail to correspond to).

Interesting blurb I saw posted on the google search:

Quote:
first of all, there needs to be a thermostat in the system. IF you removed it thinking it would run cooler without it your wrong. There needs to be a restriction in the cooling system to slow the flow of coolant through the radiator. If there is no restriction, ie no thermostat, the coolant is passed through the radiator too fast to transfer any of the heat to the cooling fins. typically, if a vehicle overheats while driving and not at idle it's because the coolant is low. see above. when the engine is at idle the water pump is slowed way down so the coolant has time to transfer the heat off to the cooling fins of the radiator. also there is no load on the engine while idling. If you still believe you need to run your cooling system without a thermostat, then take the old thermostat and cut apart the wax pellet and discard. replace the rest of the thermostat back in the system to provide the necessary flow restriction. You can also use a flat washer that is the same diameter of the thermostat to sit in the housing. the hole in the center of the washer will restrict the coolant flow. this is the first thing I woult tell any customer of mine to do. if there are no leaks, the engine could be consuming the coolant internally. Or, you could have a cracked block or head allowing combustion gases to enter the cooling system and this is what you are seeing from the expansion tank. A good pressure test of the cooling system is in order. You can also purchase what they call a block tester. It uses a test fluid to check for combustion gases in the coolant. This will tell you if you have a cracked block or head, or a bad head gasket. check to make sure your heater core is not plugged also. both hoses should be hot to the touch, one slightly cooler than the other.
Source:
ase master certified auto technician



In summation,

Everyone needs a little jiggle in their life!!!

Click for non-OEM thermostat with jiggle valve
 

GSTwithPSI

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In theory, I can understand how the need for a restriction in the cooling system would be required.

In practice for the 4G63 however, I don't think this holds true. I have personally removed the T-stat completely in multiple 4G63 powered cars without overheating. I have used this as a troubleshooting step on a few occasions as I mentioned to the OP. I also did this during a road-side fix to limp a car home one time.
 

coyotes

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Nov 15, 2013
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Location
Seattle, WA
If you overheat with no thermostat it certainly was not a thermostat issue. thermostats only bypass the radiator till the coolant has reached its operating temperature. No thermostat will only keep your car from potentially not warming up fully.
 

losermakesgood

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Mar 30, 2012
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Mishawaka, IN
After painstaking research and trial and error I have found that the "scirocco" radiator is smaller than a normal on by quite a few inches plus it is only 1-7/8 thick TOTAL! That and the fans are not strong. Think crappy ebay stuff. Anyway. Was going to do things right with a better thermostat and these... shroud radiator them along with some custom duct work for incoming air. Opinions?
 

GSTwithPSI

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You keep repeating the same sh*t over and over, despite what people are telling you to do. It's pretty frustrating to help someone who doesn't listen to what anyone says.

READ:

-Many people have used the scirocco without issue. The radiator works. As long as it is in good condition and has everything a radiator needs to work (coolant, airflow, etc) it will cool the car just fine.

-210* at idle isn't overheating, meaning your fans and radiator are working at idle. Your fans don't do sh*t when the car is moving, therefore your fans are probably not the issue. Again, they work at idle, and aren't used at cruise...so that is a good indicator that they are not the issue.

So, your radiator and fans are probably fine. This assumption is made from the information you provided about the car. If you gave wrong info, then I suppose one of these components could be to blame. You should start looking at external causes outside the cooling system for issues that would cause overheating at cruise IMO (tune, plugged radiator, shitty t-stat, etc).

Or, just install an entirely new cooling system. It's your money I guess.
 
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