DR1665
Well-known member
@Diego - Thoughtful. Appreciated. If you don't need it, someone here will be happy to scoop it up, I'm sure.
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evo8 ecu
- Thread starter johnnyRacer
- Start date
cheekychimp
Well-known member
Brox,
Sorry if I missed it, but I see a few members on here stated having to swap some wires over to gain idle control on the VR4 (read older 4G63 engines). That's something I had never heard of before, as with the A/C controls. I too picked up an EVO 8 ECU thinking I might run it in one of my cars. From what you have said, it would seem to make more sense to run it in the daily on EVO injectors, an EVO MAS and a 16G turbo.
Paul.
Sorry if I missed it, but I see a few members on here stated having to swap some wires over to gain idle control on the VR4 (read older 4G63 engines). That's something I had never heard of before, as with the A/C controls. I too picked up an EVO 8 ECU thinking I might run it in one of my cars. From what you have said, it would seem to make more sense to run it in the daily on EVO injectors, an EVO MAS and a 16G turbo.
Paul.
johnnyRacer
Well-known member
Quoting Diego:
Friend just posted his E8 ecu for sale, in the works of snagging it up... if I dont use it I will give this board first dibs.
Diego
Shoot me a pm if you don't use it. If I don't have one by then I'll more than likely take it off your hands!
Friend just posted his E8 ecu for sale, in the works of snagging it up... if I dont use it I will give this board first dibs.
Diego
Shoot me a pm if you don't use it. If I don't have one by then I'll more than likely take it off your hands!
broxma
Well-known member
Quoting cheekychimp:
Brox,
Sorry if I missed it, but I see a few members on here stated having to swap some wires over to gain idle control on the VR4 (read older 4G63 engines). That's something I had never heard of before, as with the A/C controls. I too picked up an EVO 8 ECU thinking I might run it in one of my cars. From what you have said, it would seem to make more sense to run it in the daily on EVO injectors, an EVO MAS and a 16G turbo.
Paul.
The issue with the idle control is that the pinout posted is for a 90 DSM. The ISC motor wires are switched on the 91-up cars. That is the only issue with the idle really and honestly, I am not sure if that even matters.
The only reason I make mention of running it with the Evo injectors, MAS and a 16G, is because that is what the ECU is expecting. My rationale for this, is that doing such a complicated harness/rewire stands a high risk of screwing something up. If you do the conversion and the car doesn't run right, best thing you could have done would be to eliminate the main culprits, injectors and MAS, namely latency timing on the injectors and MAS scaling.
There are two aspects of this.
First, the Evo injectors go for around 100.00 in working condition, the MAS around 30-50 I believe. The MAS can be left on the car even after everything is running perfect, because with the new large maps and "Double MAS Flow" ability of the new maps, it would be hard to over run it.
The injectors however, most people will want to switch for something larger. So I would look at the purchase of the Evo injectors as a temporary purchase. Buy them for start up tuning sake, and them sell them once you get a larger set. This is unless you have a set of injectors with a known good latency timing available on Evom, like the FIC 1250's or something. Then by all means, ignore the initial purchase of the Evo injectors and go with what you have. The whole thing is simply to rule out mechanical mistakes as a problem when doing the swap.
The reason for the 16G turbo is similar, but also because a lot of people have a 16 as a first upgrade already. It makes it very easy to tune when you can run the factory map with no changes, fire the car up, and drive off. The factory map is so rich and lacking on performance that running a stock Evo VIII map is fine in many cases.
That's the only reason I suggest using those particular things. I look at the Evo MAS as a necessity. You need one to tune it SD anyway since you compare airflow to MDP during the MAS/SD transition, and additionally, it can be resold.
/brox
Brox,
Sorry if I missed it, but I see a few members on here stated having to swap some wires over to gain idle control on the VR4 (read older 4G63 engines). That's something I had never heard of before, as with the A/C controls. I too picked up an EVO 8 ECU thinking I might run it in one of my cars. From what you have said, it would seem to make more sense to run it in the daily on EVO injectors, an EVO MAS and a 16G turbo.
Paul.
The issue with the idle control is that the pinout posted is for a 90 DSM. The ISC motor wires are switched on the 91-up cars. That is the only issue with the idle really and honestly, I am not sure if that even matters.
The only reason I make mention of running it with the Evo injectors, MAS and a 16G, is because that is what the ECU is expecting. My rationale for this, is that doing such a complicated harness/rewire stands a high risk of screwing something up. If you do the conversion and the car doesn't run right, best thing you could have done would be to eliminate the main culprits, injectors and MAS, namely latency timing on the injectors and MAS scaling.
There are two aspects of this.
First, the Evo injectors go for around 100.00 in working condition, the MAS around 30-50 I believe. The MAS can be left on the car even after everything is running perfect, because with the new large maps and "Double MAS Flow" ability of the new maps, it would be hard to over run it.
The injectors however, most people will want to switch for something larger. So I would look at the purchase of the Evo injectors as a temporary purchase. Buy them for start up tuning sake, and them sell them once you get a larger set. This is unless you have a set of injectors with a known good latency timing available on Evom, like the FIC 1250's or something. Then by all means, ignore the initial purchase of the Evo injectors and go with what you have. The whole thing is simply to rule out mechanical mistakes as a problem when doing the swap.
The reason for the 16G turbo is similar, but also because a lot of people have a 16 as a first upgrade already. It makes it very easy to tune when you can run the factory map with no changes, fire the car up, and drive off. The factory map is so rich and lacking on performance that running a stock Evo VIII map is fine in many cases.
That's the only reason I suggest using those particular things. I look at the Evo MAS as a necessity. You need one to tune it SD anyway since you compare airflow to MDP during the MAS/SD transition, and additionally, it can be resold.
/brox
jepherz
Staff member
The bit about the Idle control isn't true. The wiring of the 4 coils *does* matter. The idle control uses a 'stepper' motor, meaning each of the 4 coils can only govern so much of the travel of the coil's 30 some odd steps. If you wire the coils in incorrectly the ecu potentially loses the ability to actually move the motor.
For example, let's say to open up the idle control the ecu has to fire the 4 coils in order, 1, 2, 3, 4. If you swap two of the coils, let's name them "B1" and "B2" in this example, and the ECU actually ends up firing the coils in the order 1, 2, 4, 3, the motor will be stuck between steps 1 and 2 because it will trigger 4 when it is too far away (at position 2) and when it loops back around for 1, the ISC will actually go in reverse to 1, and then back to 2 again. wiki
Several people, myself included, had it wired the way the diagram shows it with no luck. It won't burn anything out, as there is still coil resistance on every wire, but it won't be able to do much with idle. All of us were having issues with idle being around 2000-2500 and the problems instantly went away when the coils were switched.
With all of that said, I'm not sure where people are finding the coil control for coils "B1" and "B2" are switched on '90 ECU outputs. I've used a '90 ECU in my cars for extended periods of time and never had any issues with idle control, and I've never heard of anything about needing to switch more than pins 6 and 14 around. This surely would have been covered by Keydiver or one of the other DSM ECU experts out there if it was true. Maybe part of the confusion is just the names of the 4 coils? I could call them coils 1, 2, 3, 4 or A, B, C, D for that matter. I don't think that means you can trust a wiring diagram for one car or another to actually mean anything when they mention coil "B1". In this diagram, the author just referred to the coils as "1, 3, 4, 6", although this is arguably more correct since it probably refers to the pinout of the ISC motor.
Brox, when you say the MAF is $50, where are you finding it for that price? EvoM?
For example, let's say to open up the idle control the ecu has to fire the 4 coils in order, 1, 2, 3, 4. If you swap two of the coils, let's name them "B1" and "B2" in this example, and the ECU actually ends up firing the coils in the order 1, 2, 4, 3, the motor will be stuck between steps 1 and 2 because it will trigger 4 when it is too far away (at position 2) and when it loops back around for 1, the ISC will actually go in reverse to 1, and then back to 2 again. wiki
Several people, myself included, had it wired the way the diagram shows it with no luck. It won't burn anything out, as there is still coil resistance on every wire, but it won't be able to do much with idle. All of us were having issues with idle being around 2000-2500 and the problems instantly went away when the coils were switched.
With all of that said, I'm not sure where people are finding the coil control for coils "B1" and "B2" are switched on '90 ECU outputs. I've used a '90 ECU in my cars for extended periods of time and never had any issues with idle control, and I've never heard of anything about needing to switch more than pins 6 and 14 around. This surely would have been covered by Keydiver or one of the other DSM ECU experts out there if it was true. Maybe part of the confusion is just the names of the 4 coils? I could call them coils 1, 2, 3, 4 or A, B, C, D for that matter. I don't think that means you can trust a wiring diagram for one car or another to actually mean anything when they mention coil "B1". In this diagram, the author just referred to the coils as "1, 3, 4, 6", although this is arguably more correct since it probably refers to the pinout of the ISC motor.
Brox, when you say the MAF is $50, where are you finding it for that price? EvoM?
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jepherz
Staff member
I also found this the other night: Evo 9 swap into a 2g/Evo8
DR1665
Well-known member
Re: idle control
Couldn't one simply leave it out? I'm currently running just fine on a FIAV/ISC delete, using BISS to set idle. Figure the OBDII E8ECU would probably throw a code for that, but surely it can be flashed to disregard, right? Likewise with the SD conversion, any Evo tuner worth a damn should be able to flash a loose ECU with a safe/dumb baseline to get the car to the shop, right?
I'm still running a 14B and stock injectors. An injector upgrade is on the BOM, but I'm willing and able to invest a little more elbow grease (and mental anguish) to save a couple hundred bucks.
Thanks for all your help and insight, gents. Greatly appreciated.
Couldn't one simply leave it out? I'm currently running just fine on a FIAV/ISC delete, using BISS to set idle. Figure the OBDII E8ECU would probably throw a code for that, but surely it can be flashed to disregard, right? Likewise with the SD conversion, any Evo tuner worth a damn should be able to flash a loose ECU with a safe/dumb baseline to get the car to the shop, right?
I'm still running a 14B and stock injectors. An injector upgrade is on the BOM, but I'm willing and able to invest a little more elbow grease (and mental anguish) to save a couple hundred bucks.
Thanks for all your help and insight, gents. Greatly appreciated.
jepherz
Staff member
Yeah, I started my car up with bare essentials just to get it running. It idled fine and after it was a little warmed up, stayed running on its own without problems. Injectors should be easy to compensate for; the deadtimes for 450s probably aren't anywhere on evo M, but they should be the same as anyone was using for old school eprom editing.
There's a code for idle control I'm guessing; I've run into codes for EGR and purge. I think the ecu is smart enough to know if those systems are working correctly, as well as if there is even an associated solenoid hooked up. A little smarter than a DSM /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
There's a code for idle control I'm guessing; I've run into codes for EGR and purge. I think the ecu is smart enough to know if those systems are working correctly, as well as if there is even an associated solenoid hooked up. A little smarter than a DSM /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Turboman_456
Well-known member
I have a friend here who tried using an Evo eight ECU could not get it tuned right kept throwing codes and he could not tune more than 260 WHP he dropped it and went back to map translator. I considered it since ECUs can be had for 150 bucks or so.English racing here suggested DSM link was a better system. DSM link cost little more than map translator but I think in the end it was worth it.
johnnyRacer
Well-known member
Since ther are so many evo 8 ecu's being sold to eager DSM and GVR4 owners, I was just wondering is there a reliabe way to test/check these ecu's before installing them?
johnnyRacer
Well-known member
Okay I just picked up an Evo8 ecu, I'm now trying to get everything else for this swap now. Went to the yard today and found:
1. Dec/1999 3g Eclipse - (4) Ecu harness plugs does not fit into the Evo8 Ecu
2. June/2000 Mirage - (4) Ecu harness plugs does not fit into the Evo8 Ecu
3. June/1998 Mirage - had a (3) plug ecu and all three plugs fit into the Evo8 Ecu. The missing plug is the smallest one of the four, the second one from the right.
I guess I'll be back out in the yards over the weekend to either find the missing plug or just get a complete set out of a better donor.
1. Dec/1999 3g Eclipse - (4) Ecu harness plugs does not fit into the Evo8 Ecu
2. June/2000 Mirage - (4) Ecu harness plugs does not fit into the Evo8 Ecu
3. June/1998 Mirage - had a (3) plug ecu and all three plugs fit into the Evo8 Ecu. The missing plug is the smallest one of the four, the second one from the right.
I guess I'll be back out in the yards over the weekend to either find the missing plug or just get a complete set out of a better donor.
1941Galant
Well-known member
I'm going to begin this conversion on #1941 as well. I just picked up an Evo 8 ECU on ebay for $100 shipped, and I'm going to head to the scrap yard this week to pick up the rest of the parts.
johnnyRacer
Well-known member
Quoting cobrajetguy:
I did this swap a few months ago and it worked out great. I also had a little trouble finding good info on this project and spent many long nights of sifting through pages of useless info.
List of items I used:
2005 EVO 8 ECU
Tactrix 1.3 flash cable
New OEM EVO 8 Knock sensor
2G Turbo ECU Pigtails re-pinned to EVO locations
1G ECU (cut connector off board)
OBDII Port (cut out of junkyard)
What year 2g turbo ecu pigtails did you use?
I did this swap a few months ago and it worked out great. I also had a little trouble finding good info on this project and spent many long nights of sifting through pages of useless info.
List of items I used:
2005 EVO 8 ECU
Tactrix 1.3 flash cable
New OEM EVO 8 Knock sensor
2G Turbo ECU Pigtails re-pinned to EVO locations
1G ECU (cut connector off board)
OBDII Port (cut out of junkyard)
What year 2g turbo ecu pigtails did you use?
broxma
Well-known member
I know the 97+ ECU uses the same pigtails, because it essentially uses the same ECU. The 3G eclipse with the same pigtails, also uses the same ECU which is the 2000+ 4 cyl, MT. You can also get them out of new base model lancers.
/brox
/brox
johnnyRacer
Well-known member
This must be the reason the plugs didn't work from the 3g I saw. It was a 2000 model 3g, but it was a V6 and auto.
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DR1665
Well-known member
I'm still looking to do this. Was planning to do the harness and connector adapter this week, but it looks like I roached the motor in my daily driver, so race car build goes back burner again. I got the confirmation on the ECU and connectors from Matt at BlackHeart Motors, who's been swapping these into 3Gs and Galants for a while, now.
QnzMostWanted
Well-known member
96-97 3kgt ecu fedspec and 94-97 Calispec have the same style pinouts as evo ecu
plugged into an EVO 8 ECU MN132874
plugged into an EVO 8 ECU MN132874
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johnnyRacer
Well-known member
Haven't seen any 96-97 3kgt in the yards around here. To bad 99-01 Galants won't work, I trip all over these in every yard I go to. Lol /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
johnnyRacer
Well-known member
I think I got everything now, well everthing hardwarewise anyway. Now it's time to put it all together.
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