Bazeng Update - VR4 +T51R SPL. - start up and idle video with new cams.

[bazeng]

I am willing to send my box to shep to build if I can be sure that the box WILL hold up.

I can get a dog box here locally (South Australia).
There are a few guys that make them here but the cost is insane.

I've been offered a full ralliart evo 3 gearbox with only 1000km's of usage (dirt rally). It has the Ralliart VCU installed also with an open front diff. The only then I'd do with the box is install the Kaaz which is hopefully ok and a 4 spider diff). I'll get rid of the spool just because its so hard to drive on the street.

What are your guys opinions on RALLIART parts? Are they purpose built? or just a brand name on a box?
They are meant to have stronger parts than the standard evo 3 stuff. They retail for about $4500.00 AUD from Ralliart Aus.

 

[onesickcrx]

The box Shep uses is super strong. You should have him ship one too you and then use it to ship it to him

 

[cheekychimp]

Barry,

You might want to speak to Bimmubishi on here. He had a couple of Ralliart boxes in his shop at one point, he might even still have them. I thought he said those were actually dogboxes. I would check the ratios too. If they are rally spec boxes you might find the ratios a bit short for drag racing (Alex said his boxes were only good for around 100 mph or so) and whilst I am reluctant to say rally boxes are going to be weak, I seem to remember that most rally boxes were not rated for the sort of power you are running due to the restrictors cutting horsepower. Then again since torque is what kills gearboxes, I would have thought they needed to put up with a fair bit of abuse.

Do you have anything in your box at present that necessitates you sending it to anyone to rebuild? Could you not just have Shep, TRE or someone on the board source you a good core so you only need to ship one way? That was what I did. You could also think about getting the gearsets treated, machined etc and have the box assembled in Australia. I'm actually thinking about Jack have me do another transmission for my stock car. He has some nice parts and ideas and builds a box with super large synchros which is supposed to shift like a dream but he only rates it for 400WHP which is why I never considered it for the other build. I might go that route on the stock car.

Paul.

 

[4thStroke]

The problem with finding just any gearbox to have sent out has probably been loaded up and the gears have been fatigued. While torque does kill gearsets, so does extended periods of high horsepower pulls.

I've contemplated buying a used good tranny that was built with the good Evo 3 parts, but when it boils down to it, it's a car the runs 10s and while it has shifted and operated just fine, I doubt it would do me much good for daily driving.

If you are going to have the gearset replaced with Evo gears, it shouldn't be a problem, just take that into consideration if you do start looking for a gearbox in the states to have sent out. After the gears, you have other parts to start worrying about.

Us Mitsu guys are in a terrible place for a strong gearbox that will hold up to continuous thrashing.

 

mitsu trannys hold up better than 80's saab 900 turbo trannys /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

 

[VR42LT]

ooo just seen the dyno video didnt buck around abit. Unlucky Baz /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[bazeng]

Both cars are back at home now.

I'll be working on them slowly.

The AMG is pretty much mechanically ready for a tune. I just picked up the intake pipe from the polishers. It turned out pretty good. I still have to make an air box where that unpolished pipe will be welded into so the airbox and filter will be solid mounted. I struggled to get the turbo beanie on. It should keep all the heat in rear housing. All that is left is pretty much cosmetic. I have to change one of the rear tail lights, replace all the power window motors and regs and re install all the trim.

As for the VR4, I'll drop the tranny out shortly and organise from some EVO3 bits to put inside with all the good stuff. Either that or get a dog box built. It all depends on how much the wife lets me spend!!

I'm torn between having a good street box with low maintenance VS dog box which should allow me to push the motor further. But then I'd have to look at drive shafts etc.

Anybody have a direct experience with these SHEP / TRE / JACK / TZ boxes? Anybody you know of running good times? Anybody you guys know of abusing these boxes and yet, still lasting?



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[RedTwo]

Bummer.
You could see what evoparts.co.nz has or what they recommend?

 

Shep, TRE, and Jack's all have there reps for a reason. Can't sight specific ET for people running there boxes. I now Shep keeps in touch with several customers that race a lot and could probably tell you, and the others probably could too. Not sure what shipping each way is, but you might be better off sourcing a a box in the US to have rebuilt and then just shipped to you. They pop up relitively consistantly locally, so let me know if you go that route. I only live about 10 minutes from Shep and would be willing to pick it up and drop it off with him for you.

 

[Street Surgeon]

All built transmissions will blow, some sooner than others. With these cars you can only do so much, and that nice expensive Shep Stage 4 will deal with some serious punishment, but it'll also crap out on you. If you want reliability and longevity from a trans (at your power level) then I'd have to suggest an auto. In fact I'd like to convert my Talon to an Auto from the Shep Stage 4 that I have now! As an added bonus, you won't break as many drivetrain parts either /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[bazeng]

Any idea on what is required to be modified on an AUTO transmission in order to hold up?

I've got a DOGBOX in mind now. But with the life of the box, it means minimal driving on the street as they only last 10,000 kms to 20,000kms before needing a freshen up (depending on driving style).

Maybe a standard type box for street duties and a dog box for racing?!?!

What a pain. Decisions, decisions...

 

[4thStroke]

I hear you, man. I gave up and turned my car down for daily duty. Its at 410whp. It should hold up pretty well as long as I don't get too aggressive with the shifts and not load it up in the higher gears for too long. Its a stock tranny with fresh synchros.

Not much needs to be done to get the auto to hold power. The "blue wire" mod will firm up pressure in the lines and keep the tranny shifting firmly.

English Racing has been down to 10.2 with their stock auto tranny with the blue wire mod and a shift kit (the actual affect this had on the tranny is questionable), stock converter.

A lot of what you should go with depends on what you are going to be using the car for. Unfortunately, we don't have an option that covers all the bases.

 

[turbowop]

I still think for most people a box with Evo3 gears in it would be sufficient. For stock stuff it's the best of both worlds. You get the double cone synchros for good shifting, and the stronger gears for power handling. So many high power guys out there running them and they're holding up decently. IMO, that's your best bet to keep a stock box and manual. Once you step to a dogbox you get to deal with all the sh*t that comes along with it like price, having to bang gears even when driving casually, frequent fluid changes and maintenance, etc. I don't really think they belong in a street car. At least not one that gets a fair amount of use. Auto trans sounds like a decent alternative, but I like to row through the gears myself.

 

[bazeng]

I'm really contenplating an EVO3 box for street use and a random hammering. A dogbox for the track.

I might have to get used to changing the box every now and then!

Anybody have a good core for cheap I could use to get it build somewhere in the US and have it shipped down here via container (cheap and slow but I'm in no rush).

I can send my old gearset up there to get done. I'll just save on the freight costs on getting the box up there.

 

[Brianawd]

Seeing that you are down under you may as well go with PPG gear set. That is who shep gets his dogbox gears from. It used to be that you could only get a 4speed because of the size of the gears. But now PPG has a 5th gear option. If that is not what your looking for then as said before you could go with a evo 3 3/4 gears set.



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From TRE
89-99 AWD DSM: The factory rated the 89-99 AWD transmission for roughly 250ft.lbs of torque. Sure you can put over 700ft.lbs of torque through our top shelf DSM AWD transmission, these guys have but we don't expect it to last forever on the OEM gears. It should be noted that a customer has successfully put over 700ft.lbs of torque through our transmission for two seasons of drag racing while another customer is reporting over 750ft.lbs of torque without issue but it is expected that fatigue cycle failure will eventually happen because the factory parts were never designed to handle this kind of torque.

We have done destructive load cell testing on the DSM AWD transmission. Listed below are the average peak torque numbers at which failure occurred immediately during a static load test of a factory new AWD transmission.

*

1st gear = 1125ft.lbs
*

2nd gear = 1230ft.lbs
*

3rd gear = 1280ft.lbs*
*

4th gear = NA*
*

5th gear = NA*

* Input shaft splines began to yield and crack where the splines end at approximately 1300ft.lbs. of torque but it is common to find them failing when used with clutches that hold above 700ft.lbs. Multi-disc clutch warning!

While the numbers may appear to be impressive, understand that failure was immediate and that the endurance limit is approximately 1/3 of peak torque values listed above. To put things into perspective a new off the shelf 4th gear & intermediate shaft from the DSM AWD has an approximate life of less than 500,000 cycles per tooth @ 450ft.lbs of torque. The number of cycles can be increased substantially by detailing & shot peening the gears.




Now the evo3 3/4 gear set is a little stronger but not much. How long your trans will last has a lot to do with how you power comes on and how hard you drive your car. Spencer knows what I am talking about. With my car I never down shift and just stomp on it. I all ways just roll onto the throttle nice and easy as to not shock the gears.

 

[bazeng]

Thanks for the info Brian!

I've just purchased another GVR4 which had a DOGBOX in it.

Now I'm yet to identify the gearset. It's either a PAR DOGSET or a PPG DOGSET.

I know it is aftermarket because it has a larger input shaft than stock!!

I'll find out shortly!!



Box pulled off newly purchased GVR4





Stock VR4 clutch disc below, evo4-8 type on the engine.

 

is Albins gear sets any good? they are in Australia also.
they have listed a 5 speed and a 6speed for the evo 3
doesnt have listed what it can hold though.

 

[bazeng]

The Albins stuff is meant to be good.

I'd rank the gearsets here in AUS in the order of:

1.PPG
2.PAR
3.Albins

This is purely based on other 4g owners opinions / experiences.

I've chatted to the manufactures and they all state that you will break these gearsets if you drive them incorrectly.

Now PAR also make a helical gearset also. Perfect for street use!

 

wow, didnt know that Albins wasnt a good first choice.
A friend of mine almost bought one of their sets (6spd conversion) but ended up going a different route since their answers were so unclear on the procedure.

are there many vr4s down under?

 

[VR42LT]

Maybe this will answer your question

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