#431 runs single digit passes

[NateCrisman]

Quoting broxma:
Do you have some idea as to what kind of realistic power numbers the car is laying down at that boost level?

How is boost holding on the top end of almost 9K rpm and do you think a 2.0L or 2.1L would be better?

/brox



Boost level is totally flat from the launch to the traps (assuming he doesn't lift throttle). The turbo seems to hold 40psi to 9000rpm with ease. (indicating we aren't near maxing it out yet for airflow). Watch the video and pause it when it shows the DSMlink screen captures. there's lots of info there if you feel like noticing it!

I think a 2.1 or 2.0L would elevate one of the major problems with a GVR4: we can't fit a taller tire because the wheel wells are too small. So we are up against an RPM limit in 3rd gear where if we want to run more MPH, we have to run more engine rpm. The 26" tall tires are doing 144mph at about 8900rpm which is getting sketchy for a 2.3L stroker. Really, I wish we could fit 28" or even 30" tall tires under the car, but the GVR4 body is meant for dinky rubber. (this is an advantage for a 1G car). If we went to a 2.0L bottom end and set it up to rev to 9500-10k, we wouldn't be worrying about gearing as much. But on the other hand, the car wouldn't get up on the converter as well and might not 60' as well because it wouldn't make as much torque as early. This combo obviously hammers out of the hole ....it got a 1.3 60' spinning the tires and sideways! I'd hate to think of changing the bottom end and screwing that up.

 

[NateCrisman]

Quoting Jesh:
What transmission are you using?



It's a stock awd automatic out of a 92 Talon AWD that Nelson bought/pulled earlier this week. (his original automatic trans gave up the ghost when we tried using overdrive and it smoked!). The trans mods: IPT shift kit & welded center diff. That's it. no rebuild, no upgraded guts. CHEAP. we often can find an automatic junk car, buy it for the driveline, and end up making the money back or a small profit on the scrap and unused parts. IE...free drivelines!. hahaha.

It's a much better solution than spending $6000+ on a dog box and twin disk clutch. (and still ET slower)

Stock Automatic FTW /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Gizmovr4]

First off- I would like to thank Nate Crisman for all the help in getting the car to where it is now… Not to mention the great video footage. There are also other people that where equally important in making this car the animal that it is and deserve special thanks they are: Henry, Pat, Jose… great work guys!!!

I have owned the car for just over a year and never expected it to run 9s in such a short period of time..
I am by no means new to the VR4 world- just took 8 years off since owning, building and selling 1610/2000 (which is currently for sale here on GVR4)

But I am a newbie again ….

The plan all along for 431 was to build a car that looked stock… The ultimate sleeper on the streets. Now that we have the 9s out of the way we will make changes in the off season to perhaps compete for the #1 spot . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />

In the next few days I will take the slicks off and put the car back to street trim including stock hood I will see if Nate will take some quality pictures so you guys can see how clean this car is inside and out. Again in true VR4 fashion the ultimate sleeper.

Hope you guys enjoyed the video- more to come next year!!!

 

[curtis]

Man congrats car looks so smooth not fighting to go just linear...... just wow. I'll make some phone calls today and see what I can figure out on the ignition deal. It maybe needs the twin ignitors to see some more voltage or maybe a CDI box with them. Yes guys this car is running one of the COP's I built. Proof they run to 40psi and 9's but we need to get it there not missing any.


What was the ambient temps on the runs?
What was the IAT's for each?
Also what plugs are you using?... Hopefully the non protruded ones



I'll do some pondering and get back to you guys, My buddies Honda is acting the same way and he's upgraded his spark plug wires, distributor, coil, new cap and rotor and a few sets of plugs and we can't get the bug out. I actually think its something in his tune since its now cooler and the air density has changed since the 100 degree day he had it on the dyno. Plus I think he needs a bunch of ground wires he only has one large one to the chassis from the battery.

 

[desant78]

Hey you should post the days you are going to head out! I know me and a few guys are in the area would love to come out and watch the progress...I'm about twenty min from island on the weekends.

 

That's awesome, congrats! Most car guys would look at that car and think nothing of it, thinking it's some old jap box, probably a camry or a datsun if they didn't know what the three diamonds meant.

Instead of putting the stock hood back on why not just spray the cf hood white? The stock hood is one heavy sob.

 

[RedTwo]

Is the right hand having relapses to a time when gear changing was required? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[onesickcrx]

Congrats dude! Happy to see my old driveshaft made it into the nines /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

Boy does that thing come off the line hard well done /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif

 

[2of9]

wow. congrats!

 

[IncorpoRatedX]

beautiful runs!

 

[cheekychimp]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting gizmovr4:</font><hr />
The plan all along for 431 was to build a car that looked stock… The ultimate sleeper on the streets. Now that we have the 9s out of the way we will make changes in the off season to perhaps compete for the #1 spot . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

First off congratulations. That is a significant achievement and one you should be (and obviously are) very proud of together with Nate and the rest of your crew.

I can also understand wanting to lose some weight from the car, improve on those times and wanting to chase down that #1 spot.

I just can't help but think, I wish you wouldn't. I have always said if you are going to strip a car down it makes no sense to start with a VR4. I guess you are buggered now in that you can no longer go to the track without the correct certification etc, but I just feel the car is more of an accomplishment as it sits now. I'd rather run 10s in a street car than 8s in something I could only really drive at the track.

That said if you do decide to go for it then the best of luck to you sir!

 

[NateCrisman]

I think I had the shift point rpm set below the converter's stall speed. As in the car left the line at 4800rpm or so, and as the boost comes up, the converter slips even more..up to about 6500. I had the shift rpm set to like 5800rpm as we wanted it to shift early so as not to hit the rev limiter in first like it used to when manually pushing the button on the shift box. I had the 2-3 shift rpm set to I think 6200rpm. below is the log from the first run on the video, the 9.83 pass. The RPM line looks like the car is a single speed. There are no rpm peaks or shifts. Seems like the car is riding the converter till about 4 seconds into the run (about the 330' mark) after which rpm start increasing. I "think" it's in 3rd gear the entire time as the converter slipped right past the shift points for both upshifts.

Log of the 9.83 pass:

Compare the above log to this one from the 9.6 sec pass:

Note that on the 9.6 pass we now have a defined 2-3 shift at 7300rpm (still way early) but the 1-2 shift is possibly still under the converter's stall speed. I think I had the 1-2 shift rpm set at 6000 and the 2-3 set to 6800. note throttle lift after launch (tire spin).


Here's the screenshot from the last 9.9@139 run. Notice the throttle lifting due to ignition misfire.

On this last pass there are noticeable rpm peaks for 1-2 shift and 2-3 shift at 7400 and 7950 rpm respectively. I think I had the rpm box set to 1-2 at 7000 and 2-3 at 7500.

 

[NateCrisman]

Quoting RedTwo:
Is the right hand having relapses to a time when gear changing was required? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



This was, I think, the 5th time at the track since the auto swap. I can't tell you how many times I'v scolded Nelson to leave his right foot on the floor! Not only does his right hand have nothing to do and wanders around on the shifter handle on the first 2 runs, he instinctively lifts throttle! I swear our first few times at the track he lifted on every shift for no reason. I don't have in-car video of those runs, but I would bet money on it that he was moving his left left up/down each time too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

 

[NateCrisman]

Quoting onesickcrx:
Congrats dude! Happy to see my old driveshaft made it into the nines /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rofl.gif

Boy does that thing come off the line hard well done /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif



It will leave harder still once we get it to hook up in first completely and go straight (and Nelson doesn't need to lift throttle). I think the new goal will be a 1.25 60' time. Nelson is going all out with hardcore driveline parts: Shep Xcase, some incredible huge rear axles/cups, the DSS driveshaft. I think over winter we are going to see about making improvements to the trans and fluid cooling for durability. We want to be able to SLAM this thing on the starting line and make extremely efficient use of the power it has and not worry about it breaking.

I think we can take the #1 GVR4 spot with about 300hp less than #1062 makes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif We are about .25 seconds off the record right now on a less than ideal pass. I would bet the car doesn't even crack 650whp.

 

[NateCrisman]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting cheekychimp:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quoting gizmovr4:</font><hr />
The plan all along for 431 was to build a car that looked stock… The ultimate sleeper on the streets. Now that we have the 9s out of the way we will make changes in the off season to perhaps compete for the #1 spot . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devil.gif" alt="" />

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

First off congratulations. That is a significant achievement and one you should be (and obviously are) very proud of together with Nate and the rest of your crew.

I can also understand wanting to lose some weight from the car, improve on those times and wanting to chase down that #1 spot.

I just can't help but think, I wish you wouldn't. I have always said if you are going to strip a car down it makes no sense to start with a VR4. I guess you are buggered now in that you can no longer go to the track without the correct certification etc, but I just feel the car is more of an accomplishment as it sits now. I'd rather run 10s in a street car than 8s in something I could only really drive at the track.

That said if you do decide to go for it then the best of luck to you sir!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

We totally hear you in starting with a heavy GVR4 4dr car vs a lighter 1g when chasing a #. But unfortunately, one cannot claim the bragging rights of Worlds Fastest GVR4 by building a Talon AWD. It is what it is, we are chasing GVR4 #1062 that is some tube frame and obviously much lighter than #431. That's the goal, not just some arbitrary ET we pull out of a hat. (that's what we would be doing if this was a 1g DSM...since the "record" for dsm is in the 7's).

The weight loss &amp; safety equipment Nelson is considering is this: <ul type="square">
<li>Adding in a roof halo and 2 dash bars to the roll bar to pass NHRA cert for 8.50-9.99. No biggie, they can go through the factory dash speaker holes for a clean looking install. Won't be in the way at all.
<li>ditching the electric seat belts: it's redundant when you have 5pt harnesses.
<li>race seat: Not an option in a 9sec car.
<li>some weight loss of items that aren't used or needed: Rear seat belts. The AC box under the dash. The ABS wiring and sensors. The sway bars. Nitrous kit parts (we haven't used the nitrous kit since last year, but are carrying the kit down the track in dead weight)
<li>I think we can get away without a parachute since the car shouldn't need to trap 150 to go low low 9's. </ul>

He's going to leave the body looking all stock. The interior/dash/carpet/plastics ect are all going to stay in. It should look like a streetcar, as much as possible to run 9's legally. But to put all this effort and money into making the car as fast &amp; powerful as it is to not run it up to potential....blasphemy! It runs consistent 9's now, it would be an utter shame to not finish up the safety equipment and run it out full blast. Slowing it down to the 10's where it's legal would be disappointing Im sure, knowing we had the potential and ability to take the record. And it's not like the car is realistically any more street worthy at 10.0 legal than it is at 9.9 legal since the only difference is the roof halo, dash bars, and race seat. (many of the GVR4's on here are everyday drivers w/ race seats and none calls "BS- that's not a streetcar" on them.)

As for all the Streetcar talk. REALLY...the car runs on drag slicks. It LOOKS like a streetcar, that's what matters to him. It runs on drag slicks and is trailered to the track and has a 2.5gal fuel cell and open down pipe. It's not a daily driver or useful for any real mode of transportation. Go look at any of the really fast GVR4's in this league: 1062, Dan, Garage Defeat, Raif: none of those cars were "transportation". when you get into low 10 and 9 second cars, it's just kinda ridiculous to think they are something you can go get groceries, take on a road trip w/ the kids in the back, and click of a 9.8 pass without changing parts. Really...what do you guys think this car would run on real everyday street radial tires? It would be spinning through 3 gears and likely smeared against the wall. Lucky to get 1.8 60' times. IE...a complete waste of potential.

 

[NateCrisman]

Thinking about just turning the boost down in first gear to 30-33psi or so to help it stay hooked up. DSMlink is calculating the gear/speed fine, I just checked that on the logs. So that's my plan for the next time out to help it stay straight and hooked.

Higher shift points on the adjustable rpm box so it peaks at 8500 each gear.
less boost in first gear to let it stay hooked
Zero'd alignment so it goes straight and doesn't smear the front tires or cause Nelson to lift throttle & steer.
plugs gapped tighter to .016 to hopefully let it run clean at 42-43psi of boost.

Really, I think we can go 9.4's with just tuning and setup adjustments without making any part changes or major work. Maybe run the ET at the same 145mph.
__________________

We do have to go to Etown unfortunately, since Island is on the lookout for us rule-breakers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Ian M]

Wow,that's impressive! Congrats!

I'm glad the plan is to keep it looking like a street car. That's the best part of the car. That thing isn't a sleeper...it's in a friggin coma-especially with those wheels that look like they came off a 84 Lebaron. Love it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[bazeng]

Well done!!! Just wondering what drivetrain you guys are on? Stock with 4bolt? Crazy 60 fters!

 

[RedTwo]

Just updated the leaderboard and realised how damn fast you guys are. You're only a sneeze away from taking first place. A position that is currently held by probably the lightest VR4 ever /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gif

 

[KiNgMaRtY]

Wow, very nice /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif