GVR-4
Well-known member
What do you do about the smaller combustion chamber in the 4g63 head? The stock bore on the 4g63 is 85mm, but the stock bore on the g64b is 86.5mm. Does it matter?
The Top Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 Resource
Join the best E39A 1991-1992 Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 community and document your GVR4 journey. Login to browse without most ads.
dc_style
Well-known member
i'm planning on sticking with the 14b for a bit until i find a 16g. all i know is that spool up will be really quick. but yeh, i'd like to knwo the gain. i recently bought the evo 6 intercooler from someone.. any good?
quote:Originally posted by GVR-4:
What do you do about the smaller combustion chamber in the 4g63 head? The stock bore on the 4g63 is 85mm, but the stock bore on the g64b is 86.5mm. Does it matter? Eh, just think of it as extra quench area.
What do you do about the smaller combustion chamber in the 4g63 head? The stock bore on the 4g63 is 85mm, but the stock bore on the g64b is 86.5mm. Does it matter? Eh, just think of it as extra quench area.
News on the block grinding; supposedly when using the 6 bolt 2.4 crank with stock 2.0 rods and custom pistons, you shouldn't have to grind. But in the case of the posted site/picture above, he used longer rods, and that increases the outward range of travel of the side of the rod (one of those reasons why I should've paid attention in geometry class).
Oil squirters- the dips in oil pressure on my VR4 is with a new oil pump, and it's been even after an oil chane where I topped off hte oil. Usually on turbo dsm's (in my circle of buddies here) if the rpm's dip to 600 to 700, the oil light flickers (not solid). The non-turbos seem to have more pressure, even after turbo-charging a non-turbo.
Oil squirters- the dips in oil pressure on my VR4 is with a new oil pump, and it's been even after an oil chane where I topped off hte oil. Usually on turbo dsm's (in my circle of buddies here) if the rpm's dip to 600 to 700, the oil light flickers (not solid). The non-turbos seem to have more pressure, even after turbo-charging a non-turbo.
GVR-4
Well-known member
I've heard the piston skirts on a 2.4 will dip into the oil at the bottom of the stroke. Can anyone confirm this?
Not sure, but that would reason that the stock 2.4L pistons were 6mm from dipping into the oil stock. Maybe, but I doubt it. What's it matter anyway? Sounds like a "natural" replacement for thos pesky oil squirters.
I've heard of folks shaving the piston skirts a few mm just to be safe. If the pistons do dip into the oil, you'll be foaming the oil..not good. Swapping the crank in the car is a total bitch, as you still have to move the tranny off the engine to get at the flywheel bolts...remember? It is much easier to pull the motor. I just finished an IN THE CAR rebuild on the white eclipse gsx and let me tell you that it was the stupidest thing I ever did. It worked, but prying the damned upper thrust bearing out with the crank in was a total nightmare. To each his own though. There isn't a guy who owns a dsm that isn't a masochist at heart...these cars have some strange engineering. I have a dohc 4 banger 91 camry with almost 200k on the original timing belt. Try that in our cars. The 2g oil squirters have check balls. Ours do not. Unfortunately, it doesn't take much for the sqirters to get stuck open or closed. The 2g squirters are also a contributor to the 2g crank walk problem, as the squirters are fed off the main and rod bearing oil feed, not a separate oil feed as in the 1g big rod motors. Nothing like reducing your oil pressure to the rod and mains at high rpm to get people in the dealership spending money.
Since I posted this before in detail, but my post was erased!!!
I'll post in short words 2.4 rod ratios suck!!!
I'll post in short words 2.4 rod ratios suck!!!
quote:News on the block grinding; supposedly when using the 6 bolt 2.4 crank with stock 2.0 rods and custom pistons, you shouldn't have to grind.On my 4g63 block using stock rods, 2.4 crank and Wiseco stroker pistons as best I could tell [it was hard to get a feeler gauge in there] there was not enough clearance [>1.25mm / 0.050" recommended by a reputable local race engine builder] for the rod end especially on the oil squirter side. Just to be safe I ground the lower edges of the cylinders and flattened the casting step in the block on the oil squirter side. Too much clearance is better than the alternative.
quote
edited) Sufficient cooling can come from proper Air/fuel mixture and I am a witness....Oil squirters may help cool slightly, but I don't like the impact they have on overall oil pressure.I can agree to disagree on this issue, but let's not confuse the two - cooling and oil pressure. If you don't like squirters because of the oil pressure drop, that's a completely separate issue from whether or not the squirters provide some piston cooling. Mitsu very clearly states in the Tech Manual that the squirters are there to cool the pistons. If Mitsu didn't think they had a useful benefit, they wouldn't have spent the money to install them. I'll agree that with proper tuning they may not be necessary, however, I want the extra safety margin since I will have the car running WOT for 45min to run the Silver State Challenge and that is incredibly tough on any cooling system.
quoteedited) Oil squirters- the dips in oil pressure on my VR4 is with a new oil pump...Usually on turbo dsm's (in my circle of buddies here) if the rpm's dip to 600 to 700, the oil light flickers (not solid).This interests me, since I've NEVER had this problem on my 3 DSMs or with either of my two closest friends. A combined 21+ years, 250k+ miles of ownership never having spun a bearing or had a oil pressure problem of any kind. The only time I've ever seen the low oil pressure light is when my friend used 0W Mobil 1 in the summer. At my first Talon's 150k mile refresh the original bearings were excellent and the bores still had the original crosshatch. Guess I've just had good luck.
Anyway, as far as the 2.3/2.4 swaps go, to each his/her own since there are many "right" ways to do it all depending on your goals. I'll just say that I'm finding the 2.4 crank in 2.0 swap very easy, painless, relatively inexpensive and things are going well. Yeah the rod ratio sucks, but I won't be revving the thing beyond the stock redline so I'm not worried.
quote
edited) Sufficient cooling can come from proper Air/fuel mixture and I am a witness....Oil squirters may help cool slightly, but I don't like the impact they have on overall oil pressure.I can agree to disagree on this issue, but let's not confuse the two - cooling and oil pressure. If you don't like squirters because of the oil pressure drop, that's a completely separate issue from whether or not the squirters provide some piston cooling. Mitsu very clearly states in the Tech Manual that the squirters are there to cool the pistons. If Mitsu didn't think they had a useful benefit, they wouldn't have spent the money to install them. I'll agree that with proper tuning they may not be necessary, however, I want the extra safety margin since I will have the car running WOT for 45min to run the Silver State Challenge and that is incredibly tough on any cooling system.quote
edited) Oil squirters- the dips in oil pressure on my VR4 is with a new oil pump...Usually on turbo dsm's (in my circle of buddies here) if the rpm's dip to 600 to 700, the oil light flickers (not solid).This interests me, since I've NEVER had this problem on my 3 DSMs or with either of my two closest friends. A combined 21+ years, 250k+ miles of ownership never having spun a bearing or had a oil pressure problem of any kind. The only time I've ever seen the low oil pressure light is when my friend used 0W Mobil 1 in the summer. At my first Talon's 150k mile refresh the original bearings were excellent and the bores still had the original crosshatch. Guess I've just had good luck.Anyway, as far as the 2.3/2.4 swaps go, to each his/her own since there are many "right" ways to do it all depending on your goals. I'll just say that I'm finding the 2.4 crank in 2.0 swap very easy, painless, relatively inexpensive and things are going well. Yeah the rod ratio sucks, but I won't be revving the thing beyond the stock redline so I'm not worried.
dc_style
Well-known member
how much did it cost you to put in the oil squirters?
quote:Originally posted by fast_gvr4:
Since I posted this before in detail, but my post was erased!!!
I'll post in short words 2.4 rod ratios suck!!!
People and rod ratio. IT IS A NON ISSUE! I have 4 friends, one with over 20k miles, who all run their 2.3L stroker or 2.4's up to 8500-9k rpm. They all drive the cars hard, and NONE of them have had issues. Yes the rod ratio is worse than the 2.0, but it is still within acceptable range. You will have a non-shifting tranny long before rod ratio starts breaking parts.
Since I posted this before in detail, but my post was erased!!!
I'll post in short words 2.4 rod ratios suck!!!
I agree 100% with anomalyva
ROD RATIO in a nonissue now. Plenty of high HP, much higher than all of you, have gone to 9000rpms. Don't buy JE pistons and build the stroker right and it will be troublefree
ROD RATIO in a nonissue now. Plenty of high HP, much higher than all of you, have gone to 9000rpms. Don't buy JE pistons and build the stroker right and it will be troublefree
quote:Originally posted by Beemer:
The 2g oil squirters have check balls. Ours do not. False! The 1G squirters DO HAVE a check valve in them. It is built into the bolt that holds them in.
The 2g oil squirters have check balls. Ours do not. False! The 1G squirters DO HAVE a check valve in them. It is built into the bolt that holds them in.
quote: False! The 1G squirters DO HAVE a check valve in them. It is built into the bolt that holds them inactually your right; now I remember they do have a little spring in the bolt (sometimes I confuse starions and eclipse engines because I've done both, but both have the springs I think).
quote: I can agree to disagree on this issue, but let's not confuse the two - cooling and oil pressure. My statement was meant to be a comparison of trade-offs; sorry it that wasn't clear. I didn't confuse to two.
quote: This interests me, since I've NEVER had this problem on my 3 DSMs or with either of my two closest friends. A combined 21+ years, 250k+ miles of ownership Who know's; maybe it's the warmer GA climate, I don't know. But here's my resume and that of one of my friend's: 8 mitsu turbo cars (6 starions/conquests, one gvr4, one tel) and a former Mitsu service adviser (currently @ land rover), and I've built almost as many engines as mitsu products I've own. My buddy Mike (who experiences the same prob) has been working @ mitsu for 10 years, is currently an asst. svc manager, has a 450whp '92 talon (1998,1999,2000, and 2003 Nopi Nat'l eclipse mild class champ), slightly modded '92 eclipse (his fiancee's; 2003 Nopi Nat'l conservative class champ), and a deadly quick 1989 modded turbo colt (1.6 dohc; he doesn't experience the pressure drop in this; and to be fair my turbo mirage was a 1.6, too, so that may be unfair to include that car in my "sacraficed Oil pressure w/ squirters" theory). My buddy's bro-in-law had two tel's and even in his when the RPM's dip (when pulling from a stop and not getting on the gas, or whatever reason the rpm's dropped under certain conditions, the oil light will flicker for a brief sec. or less), it did the same thing. Why we got into listing the "resume", I don't know. I guess I just wanted to let you know that I'm not a total idiot, just partial
quote: I can agree to disagree on this issue, but let's not confuse the two - cooling and oil pressure. My statement was meant to be a comparison of trade-offs; sorry it that wasn't clear. I didn't confuse to two.
quote: This interests me, since I've NEVER had this problem on my 3 DSMs or with either of my two closest friends. A combined 21+ years, 250k+ miles of ownership Who know's; maybe it's the warmer GA climate, I don't know. But here's my resume and that of one of my friend's: 8 mitsu turbo cars (6 starions/conquests, one gvr4, one tel) and a former Mitsu service adviser (currently @ land rover), and I've built almost as many engines as mitsu products I've own. My buddy Mike (who experiences the same prob) has been working @ mitsu for 10 years, is currently an asst. svc manager, has a 450whp '92 talon (1998,1999,2000, and 2003 Nopi Nat'l eclipse mild class champ), slightly modded '92 eclipse (his fiancee's; 2003 Nopi Nat'l conservative class champ), and a deadly quick 1989 modded turbo colt (1.6 dohc; he doesn't experience the pressure drop in this; and to be fair my turbo mirage was a 1.6, too, so that may be unfair to include that car in my "sacraficed Oil pressure w/ squirters" theory). My buddy's bro-in-law had two tel's and even in his when the RPM's dip (when pulling from a stop and not getting on the gas, or whatever reason the rpm's dropped under certain conditions, the oil light will flicker for a brief sec. or less), it did the same thing. Why we got into listing the "resume", I don't know. I guess I just wanted to let you know that I'm not a total idiot, just partial
dc_style,
quote:how much did it cost you to put in the oil squirters?I'm not sure if you are asking me, but it cost me ~$110 for the block machining and $80 for brand new oil squirter parts from Mitsu.
My poor motor - it started out it's life as a NT, then got turbo'ed and now is turning into a 2.3L. I'm sure the poor 4g63 is scared to see what I do to it next.
quote:how much did it cost you to put in the oil squirters?I'm not sure if you are asking me, but it cost me ~$110 for the block machining and $80 for brand new oil squirter parts from Mitsu.
My poor motor - it started out it's life as a NT, then got turbo'ed and now is turning into a 2.3L. I'm sure the poor 4g63 is scared to see what I do to it next.
dc_style
Well-known member
sounds reasonable. how much for maching your 64 block? what turbo you have on it?
turboren
Well-known member
quote:Originally posted by GVR-4:
I've heard the piston skirts on a 2.4 will dip into the oil at the bottom of the stroke. Can anyone confirm this? That can't be true. The piston skirts would have to extend BELOW the rod journal at BDC. Think about it. If that were the case, the crank would be spinning in the oil all the time.
Ren
I've heard the piston skirts on a 2.4 will dip into the oil at the bottom of the stroke. Can anyone confirm this? That can't be true. The piston skirts would have to extend BELOW the rod journal at BDC. Think about it. If that were the case, the crank would be spinning in the oil all the time.
Ren
i'm glad to hear about the 2.3 not having longevity issues as that is something i am definetly going to start piecing together come summer. i'm surprised no one has talked about the 2.4 block with the 2.0 crank yet, can you say 11,000 rpm rev monster? cool idea, but i'd take peak power before 7k please. people dislike the JE's becuase of cylinder sidewall scuffing right? Ross still the way to go these days?
Marco / Magnus has offered the hi-rev 2.4 for a while now - 2.1L. 11k rpm would be nice if you actually get the stock tranny to shift at that speed.
As far as 2.3L pistons go, I'm building mine w/ Wiseco.
As far as 2.3L pistons go, I'm building mine w/ Wiseco.
yeah, i also heard about the 2.17L first from Magnus, i haven't heard of a single person using one yet though.
