citymunky
Well-known member
Here is the ACT clutch disc, notice you can still read the ACT stamp in white.
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Can't shift into gear.
- Thread startercitymunky
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FlyingEagle
Staff member
If the master is leaking, then it could very well be ingesting air back in.
When I installed the newer labelled equivalent of the 2100 in my Colt, I had to install a new OEM master, slave and braided clutch line due to the clutch disengaging literally with the pedal 1" from the floor board (carpet pulled back!).
Those ACT pressure plates are a serious hydraulic stress.
My trans then was shimmed, but it no longer is and pedal travel is proper (when adjusted), and the shift fork sits dead center in the boot/window on the bellhousing.
I wish there was a guide on how far the fork should travel, so you could rig up a measureing device to check overall travel, and then condemn whatever parts from there.
If you rev up the car, in gear, clutch foot depressed all the way, all the way up to 6500/7000 RPM, then you should roll forward is the clutch disc is dragging - then you determine if it is hanging up (physical wear or defect), or isn't being manipulated properly (hydraulics).
When I installed the newer labelled equivalent of the 2100 in my Colt, I had to install a new OEM master, slave and braided clutch line due to the clutch disengaging literally with the pedal 1" from the floor board (carpet pulled back!).
Those ACT pressure plates are a serious hydraulic stress.
My trans then was shimmed, but it no longer is and pedal travel is proper (when adjusted), and the shift fork sits dead center in the boot/window on the bellhousing.
I wish there was a guide on how far the fork should travel, so you could rig up a measureing device to check overall travel, and then condemn whatever parts from there.
If you rev up the car, in gear, clutch foot depressed all the way, all the way up to 6500/7000 RPM, then you should roll forward is the clutch disc is dragging - then you determine if it is hanging up (physical wear or defect), or isn't being manipulated properly (hydraulics).
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gvr4ever
Well-known member
I used to run a ACT 2600 and I had to replace the master/slave and install a SS clutch line. It's the flex section by the air box. If you haven't already, push new fluid in the whole system and make sure it's bled well.
citymunky
Well-known member
I know what a SS clutch line is, I assembled aircraft hoses for 2 years. (There is one installed already)
I replaced the clutch fuild when I bleed out the system with the 1st slave cylinder that I got from the Talon. I know DOT3 retains moisture from the atmosphere, and it's recommended to replace your fuild once a year.
I'm not trying to come out as cocky, but that was basic car knowledge.
I replaced the clutch fuild when I bleed out the system with the 1st slave cylinder that I got from the Talon. I know DOT3 retains moisture from the atmosphere, and it's recommended to replace your fuild once a year.
I'm not trying to come out as cocky, but that was basic car knowledge.
citymunky
Well-known member
Quoting FlyingEagle:
If you rev up the car, in gear, clutch foot depressed all the way, all the way up to 6500/7000 RPM, then you should roll forward is the clutch disc is dragging - then you determine if it is hanging up (physical wear or defect), or isn't being manipulated properly (hydraulics).
I wouldn't really call it leaking, but fluid is able to slightly bypass the seal.
I love to try this trick, but I need to wait until the weekend if I have a buddy come over. If I roll out my garage and the car don't want to drive or shift gears, the car would be stuck outside until I could get someone help me push it back inside.
If you rev up the car, in gear, clutch foot depressed all the way, all the way up to 6500/7000 RPM, then you should roll forward is the clutch disc is dragging - then you determine if it is hanging up (physical wear or defect), or isn't being manipulated properly (hydraulics).
I wouldn't really call it leaking, but fluid is able to slightly bypass the seal.
I love to try this trick, but I need to wait until the weekend if I have a buddy come over. If I roll out my garage and the car don't want to drive or shift gears, the car would be stuck outside until I could get someone help me push it back inside.
citymunky
Well-known member
OEM master cylinder is on the way from JNZ.
gvr4ever
Well-known member
Quoting citymunky:
I know what a SS clutch line is, I assembled aircraft hoses for 2 years. (There is one installed already)
I replaced the clutch fuild when I bleed out the system with the 1st slave cylinder that I got from the Talon. I know DOT3 retains moisture from the atmosphere, and it's recommended to replace your fuild once a year.
I'm not trying to come out as cocky, but that was basic car knowledge.
Well, it does come across as cocky. I never suggested you didn't know what a SS line was. I took the time to throw in some advice I didn't see posted yet. It's post like yours that cause me to avoid this sight for long periods of time. You could have simply said, "I already did that", but you had to go out of your way to be rude about it.
Seriously, if you know so damn much, then why doesn't your clutch work perfectly already?
I know what a SS clutch line is, I assembled aircraft hoses for 2 years. (There is one installed already)
I replaced the clutch fuild when I bleed out the system with the 1st slave cylinder that I got from the Talon. I know DOT3 retains moisture from the atmosphere, and it's recommended to replace your fuild once a year.
I'm not trying to come out as cocky, but that was basic car knowledge.
Well, it does come across as cocky. I never suggested you didn't know what a SS line was. I took the time to throw in some advice I didn't see posted yet. It's post like yours that cause me to avoid this sight for long periods of time. You could have simply said, "I already did that", but you had to go out of your way to be rude about it.
Seriously, if you know so damn much, then why doesn't your clutch work perfectly already?
citymunky
Well-known member
Quoting gvr4ever:
It's the flex section by the air box. If you haven't already, push new fluid in the whole system and make sure it's bled well.
By pointing out "it the flex section by the air box," you are implying I don't know where the clutch hose is located. Also, I posted on this thread about installing a new slave cylinder, a job the requires the hydraulic to be bled. I even have to buy a S-Shaped wrench set to aid with reaching the bleed screw.
Quoting gvr4ever:
Seriously, if you know so damn much, doesn't your clutch work perfectly already?
That's a good question, however that is not basic car knowledge. Trying to figure out why a car doesn't shift after sitting for 10+ years after the last owner past away, and not being able to find any info on the build or the person who build it is a hassle all in itself.
-But being the "know-it-all" type of guy I been following the FSM on troubleshooting this:
1) Gear shift malfunction Excessive clutch pedal play: Adjust (Done, found worn clutch pedal level, rebuilt clutch pedal assembly, Still have issue )
2) Distorted clutch disc, excessive oscillation: Replace (New part, Checks good )
3) Clutch cover assembly worn: Replace (New part, Checks good)
4) Clutch disc spline worn or corroded: Replace (New part, Checks good)
5) Clutch disc facing peeling: Replace (New part, Checks good)
6) Clutch release bearing worn: Replace (New part, Checks good)
7) Damaged pressure plate: Replace (New part, Checks good)
8) Damaged pressure flywheel: Replace (Swapped out flywheel's, still have issue )
9) Leakage, air mix or clogging of hydraulic system Repair or replace parts (Replaced 10 year old slave cylinder with a working one from a '91 TSi AWD. Was unable to determine bore size Slave cylinder that I got from a '91 TSi AWD so I replaced it with a new OEM one. Still have issue. Ordered clutch master)
The point of this thread was to see if anyone who has been around longer than, knew of some other ways to find the problem. Perfect example that was pointed out that I didn't know about was the difference cylinder bore sizes for a AWD vs a FWD car.
It's the flex section by the air box. If you haven't already, push new fluid in the whole system and make sure it's bled well.
By pointing out "it the flex section by the air box," you are implying I don't know where the clutch hose is located. Also, I posted on this thread about installing a new slave cylinder, a job the requires the hydraulic to be bled. I even have to buy a S-Shaped wrench set to aid with reaching the bleed screw.
Quoting gvr4ever:
Seriously, if you know so damn much, doesn't your clutch work perfectly already?
That's a good question, however that is not basic car knowledge. Trying to figure out why a car doesn't shift after sitting for 10+ years after the last owner past away, and not being able to find any info on the build or the person who build it is a hassle all in itself.
-But being the "know-it-all" type of guy I been following the FSM on troubleshooting this:
1) Gear shift malfunction Excessive clutch pedal play: Adjust (Done, found worn clutch pedal level, rebuilt clutch pedal assembly, Still have issue )
2) Distorted clutch disc, excessive oscillation: Replace (New part, Checks good )
3) Clutch cover assembly worn: Replace (New part, Checks good)
4) Clutch disc spline worn or corroded: Replace (New part, Checks good)
5) Clutch disc facing peeling: Replace (New part, Checks good)
6) Clutch release bearing worn: Replace (New part, Checks good)
7) Damaged pressure plate: Replace (New part, Checks good)
8) Damaged pressure flywheel: Replace (Swapped out flywheel's, still have issue )
9) Leakage, air mix or clogging of hydraulic system Repair or replace parts (Replaced 10 year old slave cylinder with a working one from a '91 TSi AWD. Was unable to determine bore size Slave cylinder that I got from a '91 TSi AWD so I replaced it with a new OEM one. Still have issue. Ordered clutch master)
The point of this thread was to see if anyone who has been around longer than, knew of some other ways to find the problem. Perfect example that was pointed out that I didn't know about was the difference cylinder bore sizes for a AWD vs a FWD car.
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citymunky
Well-known member
Fresh from JNZ.
Not sure when I'm goinr to have time to install this and test it out with Hurricane Joaquin heading straight for my area. I need this weekend to prepare just in case.
Not sure when I'm goinr to have time to install this and test it out with Hurricane Joaquin heading straight for my area. I need this weekend to prepare just in case.
citymunky
Well-known member
So I installed the clutch master cylinder yesterday night. I bled the system today with the addition step of pushing in the clutch fork to fully compress the clutch while the bleeder screw was open. Closing the screw before releasing the fork and pedal.
Started the car and again with the car JSB I was able to get the car into gear. So installed the transfer case and the front tires and tried again. Good to go, I was still able to get the car in gear with while JSB. I button everything up a d drop the car on the ground and I was able to get in 1st. It was a little notchly and have I was actually driving out into the drive way. I drove around the block however shifting was not easy as it should have been, either my clutch is still not adjusted right yet or the synchros are trashed.
Started the car and again with the car JSB I was able to get the car into gear. So installed the transfer case and the front tires and tried again. Good to go, I was still able to get the car in gear with while JSB. I button everything up a d drop the car on the ground and I was able to get in 1st. It was a little notchly and have I was actually driving out into the drive way. I drove around the block however shifting was not easy as it should have been, either my clutch is still not adjusted right yet or the synchros are trashed.
FlyingEagle
Staff member
Engine off, can you shift into all gears properly, minus the initial notchiness of the dogs lining up?
Engine on, clutch down far enough. Are you able to duplicate the same ease of shifting or not?
Side note: are all the spacers in place for the shifter cable supports as it crosses over the bell housing area? Correct bracket in place/reused, etc?
Engine on, clutch down far enough. Are you able to duplicate the same ease of shifting or not?
Side note: are all the spacers in place for the shifter cable supports as it crosses over the bell housing area? Correct bracket in place/reused, etc?
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transparentdsm
Well-known member
did you try messing around with the clutch pedal rod adjuster at all? i see no mention of it and that can change the engagement/disengagement point of the clutch.
citymunky
Well-known member
Quoting FlyingEagle:
Engine off, can you shift into all gears properly, minus the initial notchiness of the dogs lining up?
Yes, with the engine off I'm able to shift into all gears without a problem.
Quoting FlyingEagle:
Engine on, clutch down far enough. Are you able to duplicate the same ease of shifting or not?
No, when I was driving around the block I had to try a few times to get the car in gear.
Quoting FlyingEagle:
Side note: are all the spacers in place for the shifter cable supports as it crosses over the bell housing area? Correct bracket in place/reused, etc?
Yes, the Transmission is from a GVR4, and the other 2 I have laying around are from 1g's. One from a 1991 and the other from a 1992-1994.
I don't have any 1990 stuff, I never will.
Engine off, can you shift into all gears properly, minus the initial notchiness of the dogs lining up?
Yes, with the engine off I'm able to shift into all gears without a problem.
Quoting FlyingEagle:
Engine on, clutch down far enough. Are you able to duplicate the same ease of shifting or not?
No, when I was driving around the block I had to try a few times to get the car in gear.
Quoting FlyingEagle:
Side note: are all the spacers in place for the shifter cable supports as it crosses over the bell housing area? Correct bracket in place/reused, etc?
Yes, the Transmission is from a GVR4, and the other 2 I have laying around are from 1g's. One from a 1991 and the other from a 1992-1994.
I don't have any 1990 stuff, I never will.
citymunky
Well-known member
Quoting transparentdsm:
did you try messing around with the clutch pedal rod adjuster at all? i see no mention of it and that can change the engagement/disengagement point of the clutch.
I did.
However can't troubleshoot the problem anymore. My small 16g turbo is seized, and I'm not rebuilding it. I'm just going start fresh on the this restromod of 733/2k.
There was too many things I didn't like about the trying to get it road ready on the cheap, but I ignored it for the befit of having the time to mod the car slowly while being driven. That plan is not working, so it time to pull it on Jack stands for a while.
did you try messing around with the clutch pedal rod adjuster at all? i see no mention of it and that can change the engagement/disengagement point of the clutch.
I did.
However can't troubleshoot the problem anymore. My small 16g turbo is seized, and I'm not rebuilding it. I'm just going start fresh on the this restromod of 733/2k.
There was too many things I didn't like about the trying to get it road ready on the cheap, but I ignored it for the befit of having the time to mod the car slowly while being driven. That plan is not working, so it time to pull it on Jack stands for a while.
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FlyingEagle
Staff member
If the trans comes out again as part of the work to make more diagnostic progress, let us know how the splines on the input shaft look, maybe with a good pic.
Wondering if the splines have any sort of "dipping/wear" along the tops of each spline contributing to the disc being allowed to tilt and not disengage from the pressure plate and flywheel. Also, how much play in the input shaft is there, when pushed/pulled up and down?
Those are the only other things I could think of being an issue if, ALL other things in check.
Wondering if the splines have any sort of "dipping/wear" along the tops of each spline contributing to the disc being allowed to tilt and not disengage from the pressure plate and flywheel. Also, how much play in the input shaft is there, when pushed/pulled up and down?
Those are the only other things I could think of being an issue if, ALL other things in check.
citymunky
Well-known member
I remember looking at the splines when I shimmed the pivot ball and was reinstalling the throw out bearing (which BTW was a new part also). Nothing looked abnormal, and the top of the splines were not worn.
desant78
Well-known member
Quoting citymunky:
Quoting transparentdsm:
did you try messing around with the clutch pedal rod adjuster at all? i see no mention of it and that can change the engagement/disengagement point of the clutch.
I did.
However can't troubleshoot the problem anymore. My small 16g turbo is seized, and I'm not rebuilding it. I'm just going start fresh on the this restromod of 733/2k.
There was too many things I didn't like about the trying to get it road ready on the cheap, but I ignored it for the befit of having the time to mod the car slowly while being driven. That plan is not working, so it time to pull it on Jack stands for a while.
I see you aren't working on it anymore, but I figured I'd chime in since knowledge is power. From what I read from the build thread, you are running a ACT 2600 set up, and previously installed the extended slave rod. Are you still using the extended slave rod? If you got your clutch second hand (or new but not in the box) ACT requires the extended rod with the 2600 series, or else your problem of poor shifting will occur. I'm sure you did include it, but figured I'd ask the "obvious" because we all make silly mistakes.
Good luck with the car!
Quoting transparentdsm:
did you try messing around with the clutch pedal rod adjuster at all? i see no mention of it and that can change the engagement/disengagement point of the clutch.
I did.
However can't troubleshoot the problem anymore. My small 16g turbo is seized, and I'm not rebuilding it. I'm just going start fresh on the this restromod of 733/2k.
There was too many things I didn't like about the trying to get it road ready on the cheap, but I ignored it for the befit of having the time to mod the car slowly while being driven. That plan is not working, so it time to pull it on Jack stands for a while.
I see you aren't working on it anymore, but I figured I'd chime in since knowledge is power. From what I read from the build thread, you are running a ACT 2600 set up, and previously installed the extended slave rod. Are you still using the extended slave rod? If you got your clutch second hand (or new but not in the box) ACT requires the extended rod with the 2600 series, or else your problem of poor shifting will occur. I'm sure you did include it, but figured I'd ask the "obvious" because we all make silly mistakes.
Good luck with the car!
FlyingEagle
Staff member
Had no idea you had to use an extended to rod to achieve full release at the 2600pp.
Does ACT have anything in writing to confirm this scenario?
Does ACT have anything in writing to confirm this scenario?
citymunky
Well-known member
Quoting desant78:
I see you aren't working on it anymore, but I figured I'd chime in since knowledge is power. From what I read from the build thread, you are running a ACT 2600 set up, and previously installed the extended slave rod. Are you still using the extended slave rod? If you got your clutch second hand (or new but not in the box) ACT requires the extended rod with the 2600 series, or else your problem of poor shifting will occur. I'm sure you did include it, but figured I'd ask the "obvious" because we all make silly mistakes.
Good luck with the car!
Thanks I didn't know that. Yes the car came with a ACT 2600 with a 6 puck unsung disc. Since I was shooting for stock power levels with this time around, I installed the ACT 2100 with organic disc. Currently I have the normal slave cylinder rod with the ACT 2100.
I see you aren't working on it anymore, but I figured I'd chime in since knowledge is power. From what I read from the build thread, you are running a ACT 2600 set up, and previously installed the extended slave rod. Are you still using the extended slave rod? If you got your clutch second hand (or new but not in the box) ACT requires the extended rod with the 2600 series, or else your problem of poor shifting will occur. I'm sure you did include it, but figured I'd ask the "obvious" because we all make silly mistakes.
Good luck with the car!
Thanks I didn't know that. Yes the car came with a ACT 2600 with a 6 puck unsung disc. Since I was shooting for stock power levels with this time around, I installed the ACT 2100 with organic disc. Currently I have the normal slave cylinder rod with the ACT 2100.
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strokin4dr
Well-known member
I've had a few cars with ACT clutches, my current VR4 included. Recently replaced the clutch master and slave. Stock length rod and good to go.
Your problem is somewhere else. Extended rods are bandaids that mask the real issue.
Your problem is somewhere else. Extended rods are bandaids that mask the real issue.
