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Suggestions on motor rebuild

LordAthey

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Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
207
Location
Council Bluffs, Iowa
So finally I have enough money to get started on rebuilding the car. My goal is to push 30 psi I'm debating on what to do. It's a stock motor so I'm going to go .20 over with eagle rods and je pistons. I'm sure this should hold the boost, but open to opinions. Also I'm not sure what turbo would be good for this build just wondering what other people are running. Probably going to go with the 264/272 combo on the cams. Also wondering if a walbero 255 would be able to supply enough pressure for the boost and what size fuel injectors I need. I'm just trying to gauge some opinions before I go crazy and start buying parts. Also to make sure I try and get down the right path.

Thanks,

Lord Athey
 

TomN

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Joined
Nov 21, 2011
Messages
207
Location
North Port, Fl
To say your looking to build a motor to hold 30psi is meaningless.
30psi on one turbo could be 300hp while on another 800hp.
What's your actual hp goal? You build a car around a desired hp goal not psi.
Also what do you plan to use the car for?
 

GSTwithPSI

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Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
3,461
Location
SoCal
Quoting LordAthey:
So finally I have enough money to get started on rebuilding the car. My goal is to push 30 psi I'm debating on what to do. It's a stock motor so I'm going to go .20 over with eagle rods and je pistons. I'm sure this should hold the boost, but open to opinions. Also I'm not sure what turbo would be good for this build just wondering what other people are running. Probably going to go with the 264/272 combo on the cams. Also wondering if a walbero 255 would be able to supply enough pressure for the boost and what size fuel injectors I need. I'm just trying to gauge some opinions before I go crazy and start buying parts. Also to make sure I try and get down the right path.

Thanks,

Lord Athey



Many people are running 30 psi on stock 4G63 internals. IMO, you could go with a 2g piston and 1g rod combo if you really wanted to, and would probably be fine depending on your setup. Make sure you have good hardware (ARP or equivalent) and nice flat machined mating surfaces that seal well and you will be set. You could save a little money this route as well since these parts are cheap and easy to come by, and could spend what you save in other areas of the build. As far as turbo selection goes, you probably should narrow down your desired HP range, and decided what you are building the car for, and then select the appropriate turbo. If I was building a drag car, my turbo selection would be much different than say, if I was going to use the car on the street to DD. A 255 should do fine for most setups unless you plan to run E85, in which case you may need to upgrade to a larger pump. What size injectors are you planning on using, and with what fuel? Also what are your plans for the car and what kind of HP do you want to make?

Edit: Nvmd on the Hp and usage question, you posted as I was writing this. With 600 HP as your goal, your original piston rod combo would probably be better in this case. As far as the turbo, I think a Holset HX40 would work pretty good for you, especially for the price.
 
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LordAthey

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Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
207
Location
Council Bluffs, Iowa
Well it will probably just be a DD / weekend car that is drove on the street. Probably going to run 91 octane. Not sure on the injectors yet till I narrow down to a turbo to suits the build. I want to run 600 hp. I just want to get the right turbo for my setup.
 

DR1665

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Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
4,643
Location
Iowa City, IA
Quoting TomN:
To say your looking to build a motor to hold 30psi is meaningless.
30psi on one turbo could be 300hp while on another 800hp.
What's your actual hp goal? You build a car around a desired hp goal not psi.
Also what do you plan to use the car for?



MUCH RESPECT FOR KEEPING IT REAL, TOM.

Lord Athey, don't take such questions the wrong way, boss. Those of us who actually have to save up to do this sort of thing need to be super vigilant about our planning in order to get the most value for our money. 30psi is good in that it's a specific, measurable goal, but it's not very reflective of how you use the car. You've mentioned weekend plaything that you take the track once in a while, but you've also mentioned DD duty. How much time do you expect to have your foot in it all the way out to 30psi? How much time at output levels well below that? What's a 30psi car like at 15psi? See what we're getting at?

I'd offer that the stock bottom end, properly assembled and maintained, and competently tuned, has been known to deliver 400hp for almost a decade, now, which is more than enough to blow the doors off just about ANYTHING you come across on the street without a roll cage. So how about trying something truly epic - optimizing a bunch of carefully selected OEM bits so that, even if you're just running to McDonalds, the car puts a smile on your face. There are plenty of 600hp-capable cars out there with only 200hp-capable drivers behind the wheel talking big numbers on the internet, but these cars (and their DSM counterparts) got to be as popular as they are because guys were nickel-and-diming their way to big power and fast times on minimal mods.

To give you some ideas, here's what I'm planning to do for my race engine build and why. (For an actual, caged, race car.)

BOTTOM END:
+ 2G piston/1G rod combo (increased compression ratio = better off-boost, quicker spool, greater engine efficiency)
+ knife-edge/lighten crankshaft (reduced rotational mass = improved acceleration)
+ crank-scraper/baffled-pan (keeps oil in pan, mitigates risk of starvation under extended cornering)
+ balanced at LEAST to factory redline, but with a focus on 3000-6000rpm (where I hope to spend most of my time)

TOP END:
+ 1.8L head (further compression ratio gains, tip-in responsiveness, spool reduction, efficiency)
+ *mild* headwork, gasket-matching, port/bowl surfacing (increased efficiency, better fuel atomization)
+ Evo 8 cams (inexpensive "264/272" combo if I remember right, lighter weight, power is made in the head)
+ adjustable cam gears (fine tuning of hp/torque curves)
+ JDM Cyclone intake manifold (more low- to mid-range torque, improved turbo responsiveness)
+ exhaust manifold - maybe FP cast, Evo III? (improved turbo flow, responsiveness)
+ Evo III 16g (super responsive, should be a blast to max one of these out in an optimized chassis)

Then there's the usual intake, IC plumbing/size, and exhaust bits, an Evo 8 ECU to control it all, gearing, clutch, suspension, tire, brake, selections, but this is just what I'm thinking about right now. I don't have a specific boost pressure or horsepower or even torque target, but when it's done, it's going to be soundly in the middle of the pack - whether I'm drag racing, road racing, autoxing, or rallyxing - without sacrificing so much that I can't drive it to work or a race in a neighboring state.

Remember, for every 600awhp monster build you see, there is some guy sick of his car's sh*t when nobody's around.
Plan it. Build it. Drive it. JSB is no way to be.
 

LordAthey

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Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
207
Location
Council Bluffs, Iowa
I'm not this car has been sitting for 2 years and I finally have enough money to get it to where I want to be at. Most likely it will be a daily driver after much thought. That's why I want around 600 hp I've owned a talon with 350 I just want more out of the galant since I'm going to be rebuilding the block and head why not go all out. I just wanted something that is going to last and that when I get on it the power is there. On the flip side I've never had a car with this much horse so just seeing what turbo and other parts people are using. I'm probably just going to be using the block and head not going to be doing the 1.8 swap.
 
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GSTwithPSI

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Joined
Jan 1, 2012
Messages
3,461
Location
SoCal
Quoting DR1665:

+ 1.8L head (further compression ratio gains, tip-in responsiveness, spool reduction, efficiency)



So maybe I'm crazy, but the 1.8L head is a single OHC head. Are you referring to something different than the 1.8L DSM head I'm thinking of?
 

EgonOlsen

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Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
333
Location
Denmark, Europe.
Quoting GSTwithPSI:
Quoting DR1665:

+ 1.8L head (further compression ratio gains, tip-in responsiveness, spool reduction, efficiency)



So maybe I'm crazy, but the 1.8L head is a single OHC head. Are you referring to something different than the 1.8L DSM head I'm thinking of?



4G61 1.8 DOHC came in the Colt and Lancer GTI in europe.(I think it was called 4G61)
 

LordAthey

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
207
Location
Council Bluffs, Iowa
So I think I'm narrowing down everything and I'm wondering if i should get single springs for the head or double. Anyone have any experience with BC springs?
 

valve springs are valve spring aftermarket speaking. ive used cheap and nice on hondas and stuff and there is no difference. use EVO springs if your not planning on huge cams
 

CutlassJim

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Joined
Jul 17, 2006
Messages
1,699
Location
Manchester, NH
Quoting EgonOlsen:
Quoting GSTwithPSI:
Quoting DR1665:

+ 1.8L head (further compression ratio gains, tip-in responsiveness, spool reduction, efficiency)



So maybe I'm crazy, but the 1.8L head is a single OHC head. Are you referring to something different than the 1.8L DSM head I'm thinking of?



4G61 1.8 DOHC came in the Colt and Lancer GTI in europe.(I think it was called 4G61)



4G61 = 1.6L
 
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