Spline count on my 92 VR4

Hey guys,

Im in the process of replacing my transmission, and just figured out that eh trans i just had built will not mate with my T-case. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif I counted the splines on each and it looks like the output shaft has 23 splines, but the T-case looks like it is for a 22 spline output shaft.

When I had the trans built and i gave them the info on my car (model, manufacture date, etc) and they made me a trans accordingly. I am trying to figure out if they screwed up and put in the wrong output shaft, or if the T-case on my car has been changed.

I've searched for spline count on every forum I can and ive heard different things. Talking about AWD transmissions, apparently all 90's and earlier have 22 spline output shafts from the trans to the T-case. Now ive heard different things about the 91+ spline count. Here are the two things i have heard.

1) all 91+ AWD transmissions have 23 splines
2) "early 91" AWD transmissions still have 22 and the rest have 23 splines

Anyone know for sure when they switched over to the 23 spline Trans and T-case? My manufacture date is july 1991. I need to know if that car came with a 22 spline or 23 spline output from the factory.

Thanks in advance

 

[Barnes]

Did someone steal your old transfer case? How is it possible the one you have isn't the original?

There are two choices to fix this situation, both are fairly easy:

1) Buy a 23 spline transfer case. You should probably be able to get one of of these for $75-150 depending on shipping and condition. It will swap right in and work exactly like your original 22 spline t-case.

2) Put a 22 spline output shaft in the transmission. I don't know how much an used output shaft is, but probably less than the transfer case. These are easily swapped even with the transmission installed.

Personally I would prefer option #1. The 23 spline shaft is a better design and does not wear like the 22 spline. It is not uncommon for the 22 spline shaft to wear down enough to strip out the teeth on the t-case or the output shaft. Also, you don't have to crack open your transmission. Even though it is easy, you gotta work with gear oil, seal something up blah blah blah. Where going with option 1 you just toss a part on that you have to do anyways.

 

[CutlassJim]

I'm with BM on this one. The only pro to using the 22 spline is that the Tcase is half aluminum and thus weighs less. But unless you're obsessed with weight loss it really doesn't make any difference. Go take a dump if you want your race weight to be 10 lbs less.

 

[Barnes]

To better answer the original question:

There is no way as far as I know. Maybe some of the guys that have access to VIN data could tell you. It seems these cars have a mix of 22 and 23 spline t-cases. I've mostly encountered 22 spline, but that's just me.

 

I suppose someone could have changed the trans and or T-case. It wouldn't be logical to put in the 22 instead of the 23, but people are dumb. I just wanted to figure out what my car came with from teh factory before i go and tell this shop that they screwed up.

I know the 23 spline T-cases are better, but i havent had a problem with it yet and honestly I dont think im putting out enough power to really be worried about it right now. I just paid to have my transmission built so i don't exactly want to spend more money to replace my T-case because the guys who built it couldn't take the time to figure out which output shaft i needed.

I was under the impression that the trans had to be cracked apart to get that out though. The new trans is currently in the car, but nothing besides the bolts to the block and mount to the chassis have been installed. It isn't even full of oil yet. How hard is it to swap that output shaft out?

 

Quoting BarnesMobile:
To better answer the original question:

There is no way as far as I know. Maybe some of the guys that have access to VIN data could tell you. It seems these cars have a mix of 22 and 23 spline t-cases. I've mostly encountered 22 spline, but that's just me.



Thats what i really wanted to know. I guess it boils down to being the shops fault then. I gave them my old tranny, and they built me a new one. All they do is DSM Trannies so they should have known to count the splines on a tranny from a 92 VR4 if they aren't all the same. Ill probably end up having them fix the tranny and just be done with it.

 

[Barnes]

Did you order the transmission yourself and the shop is doing the install etc? Who did your transmission rebuild? Did you send them your original transmission?

It's very simple to swap the shaft. Even more so because there is no fluid in the tranny. Yes you have to open the tranny case, but it isn't that big a deal:

1) Remove the end case from the transmission. Just remove the bolts around the perimeter of the end case. 10-12 bolts or so, I don't remember the exact number.
2) Take the snap ring off that holds the viscous coupler(VC) on.
3) You will see a ball bearing in a hole in one of the hollow shafts that the VC was just installed on. This ball bearing holds the t-case output shaft in place. Remove this little ball bearing with a magnet.
4)Pull the t-case output shaft out of the transmission from the driver side of the transmission towards the driver side of the car.

Install is reverse of this. Clean off the endcase mating surface, reinstall end case using RTV UltraGrey to seal it. DO NOT USE RED RTV, IT WILL EVENTUALLY LEAK. Torque the bolts to the correct values.

That's it, pretty easy really. If you need particular pictures or torque values let us know.

 

I had Jackstransmissions in Colorado Springs do the build on my tranny. They do an exchange service, so I did the removal of the old trans, drove down to the springs with it, and swapped it out for a biult trans that was suppose to fit my car. Then I did the install.... until i got to the T-case. I sent them an email with my vin, model, year, etc when I requested them to start the build and they didnt ask me anything about the spline count.

Sounds like it isn't too hard to change out that shaft, but i would rather not take apart a brand new trans and void the warranty on it to replace something that should have been done correctly to begin with.

 

[Barnes]

If you handed him your trans with a 22-spline t-case shaft, and got a 23-spline back, you need to call him. Unless you specifically asked to swap the shaft he shouldn't have done that, or at least asked you at a minimum. I've heard good things about Jack's, so hopefully there was a good reason, or it was a simple goof that he can rectify.

 

Oh yea, Ive heard all good things about jack as well. He has done a few other things for me and always does good work. They havent been open since i ran into the problem, so i contacted them and im waiting on a response. Im guessing he will at least swap it out for me.... just a pain to take it back out and drive down there.

 

So they aren't working with me at all on swapping out that output shaft on my trans. Is there someone on this forum who would be able to check the stock spline count for my car if i posted my VIN or PM'ed it to them?

Thanks

 

92 GVR4s come with 23 spline units, period. We did exactly what you wanted us to do. Someone swapped your trans and t-case in the past which is a common thing to find as these cars are getting older. There is absolutely no reason why your car should have a 22 spline t-case in it from the factory and why that is our fault.

Looking at the core you dropped off I found the following:

1) This trans appears to have not fit your car and someone ground off a part of the center section of the case to make it fit. Remember I pointed this out to you when you dropped it off the other day? Of course not...

2) This trans has a bunch of silicone oozing out of everything in this case and it appears someone else has been though it in the past.

3) I checked the number on this trans and it is some kind of reman unit and not listed as a unit sold in the Mitsubishi system. The way the numbers are stamped on the bell housing also shows this is not original.

If you were a little kinder to us about this I would be willing to help, but from what I can see of your posts and emails you got exactly what you asked for and what is supposed to go in that car.

Sorry to be so harsh, but I did a lot to try to help this guy out including giving his FULL CORE charge back for the POS trans he gave us and he gets in here and does this to us without even giving us the benefit of the doubt first. Ridiculous...

Jack

 

Sorry if i sounded like i was bashing on you Jack. I tried to make this clear, but i have nothing against you or Jackstransmissions as a shop. I have just been trying to figure out what is suppose to be in my car, nothing more. I completely agree that your shop does amazing work and that you stand behind it completely. Once again Sorry for any negative impression anyone may have gotten about your shop. Thats not at all what i ment to do on here.

 

Here is an option that might work for you if you want to try it.

I am getting close to out of good used 22 spline couplers, but I have a bunch of good 23 spline couplers. To save you the time of pulling the trans again just bring the t-case down and I will swap the coupler for you to a 23 spline. That way I get a 22 and you get a setup that will work.

Let me know.

Jack

 

sounds like a good option. Thanks for working with me. Would this be something i would need to leave the T-case with you for, or could it be done fairly quickly?

How would thursday afternoon work? If not let me know whats convenient for you.

Thanks

 

I have a coupler all ready to go. I can do the swap while you wait and should be here on Thurs from 9AM-10PM. Will be gone from 6-7 though so don't come by then.

Thanks,

Jack

 

Just got the tranny in and did the first test drive. Everything is working great. Thanks Jack.

 

[Barnes]

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