Seat-belts and Racing Seats?

[turbophein]

ok so after sorting out the seat brackets i needed, and the seats i wanted, i realized there is going to be a huge issue with seat-belts? How do you get around this without using a 5 point harness? i just want a stock seat belt, i could even do without the auto belts. the seat-belts are bolted to the seats aren't they?

thanks

UPDATE: Job Finished with my own custom seat brackets. I couldn't find any to buy new. i sourced a right side seat bracket by bride from japan, and used that to reverse copy a bracket for the drivers side.

 

[prove_it]

You don't need a 5 point harness, that's overkill. You can pick up a 3 or 4 point for around $100. If your buying seats and rails, then it shouldn't be much more to run proper belts.

 

[EHmotorsports]

Just make sure that your local laws allow them. Otherwise you will have to keep and run the stock setup on the roads.

 

[slugsgomoo]

i dislike harnesses without a sub strap, they don't feel nearly as comfortable when you don't have that to keep things from riding up.

That said, the buckle itself bolts to the seat, so if you do race seats and want to keep factory belts, you'll likely need to build a mounting point for that.

 

[turbophein]

that is what i was thinking, i don't have a problem welding up a mounting tab i guess for the belt, easy enough to make it overkill with some bracing also. maybe i should do the manual seat-belt conversion?

 

[slugsgomoo]

I've got the stuff to do the manual belts, but the plastics (at least the ones I have) require drilling and such in the body for the holes to line up, and I have not felt super motivated to go through the hassle.

Admittedly, I haven't done tons of miles in my car with the harnesses (probably 4000-4500) but I've never had an issue. Turbowop has had harnesses in his car since before I met him ~10.5 years ago and I don't think he's ever gotten a talking to on them.

Frankly I feel like the only way you'll get in trouble for them is if you/your car are extremely obnoxious and doing obviously really illegal things. I mean, technically my belts aren't DOT rated, but they have FIA certification, so that has to count for something.

 

[turbowop]

I've been pulled over numerous times with my harnesses. I've yet to hear anything about them. That's only in WA state though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

 

[GSTwithPSI]

If you decide to go the 3 pt belt route, 3 point harnesses aren't too involved:

Quoting GSTwithPSI:

I also installed a set of Sabelt 3 point harnesses:

For the back, you'll need a set of 90* L brackets.

Belts installed:

They look nice too:

 

[turbophein]

ok so after looking at the cipher website, there brackets include restraint brackets for the belt clip! Thats pretty cool. Now as long as they don't tell me 2-3 months wait like the bride rails i ordered, i should be all set!

 

[tektic]

So cipher has a bracket listed for e39a? Do they make it in house?

 

[donniekak]

Attaching the shoulder straps to the rear seat belts is about the worst possible way to do it, and won't pass tech anywhere. The lowest attachment point allowed is 4 inches below your shoulder. That's why people use harness bars.

 

[turbophein]

Quoting tektic:
So cipher has a bracket listed for e39a? Do they make it in house?




apparently... i talked to them already, 2-3 week wait. they need me to verify the seat mounting hole positions to build them accordingly. i am waiting for my no name seats to come in. they matched perfectly to the evo rear seats and cheap enough they were worth a shot.

I will keep this post updated. $470 total, i have spent on this project. hopefully it works out.

 

[turbophein]

Quoting tektic:
So cipher has a bracket listed for e39a? Do they make it in house?



useless back seats though? i love my 4 door!

 

[donniekak]

If you wreck your car in a front end collision with that setup there is a good chance you will break your back.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting donniekak:
Attaching the shoulder straps to the rear seat belts is about the worst possible way to do it, and won't pass tech anywhere. The lowest attachment point allowed is 4 inches below your shoulder. That's why people use harness bars.



I've passed tech dozens of times at the track with the belts like they are pictured. A harness bar would be preferable, but I don't want one. A harness bar or cage basically renders the back seat unusable, which I don't like.

I did a lot of research before I mounted the belts, for exactly the reasons you're saying. When I decided to mount the belts like I did, I followed the guideline that the shoulder belt angle between the occupants back and lower attachment point should be greater than 90 degrees, as outlined in the picture below:

At my size and height, my driving position puts my seat in a position that meet those requirements. This is also why the 90* L brackets are required, because they ensure the belt angle stays correct. You can't just bolt the belts to the floor and go. Now, this may not be the same for all passengers in my car depending on their size, which is why I left the stock seat belts in place.

If anyone reading this is installing belts like I did before ensuring you meet the requirements above, don't. Take some measurements, then install accordingly.

 

[donniekak]

From the Nhra rule book.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

As I said above, I wasn't following NHRA guidelines, I was following the guideline I outlined above. I don't race in an NHRA class, nor will I ever. If you're saying my belts don't meet NHRA guidelines, you're right, they don't.

I would assume the 4" rule is there to ensure regardless of the size of the occupant, your shoulder belts will fall within the allowable/safe angles.

 

[donniekak]

You don't have to race in an nhra class to need to meet their tech. I see (and have been) people get kicked all the time at test and tunes for nhra regulation violations.

I understand if you'll never drag race and only need to meet scca or other road race/auto cross. It gets to be a pain if you plan to do more than one type of event with the car. The local 1/2 mile event said I'm good to 170+ with good tires, a battery tie down, no leaks, and a helmet, pretty scary.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Yeah, IDK. I've passed tech dozens of times with my belts mounted as is. That's only at one track though, so who knows how true that would hold elsewhere. As I mentioned, if I get flagged for the belts, I can just use the stock ones for sh*t like test and tune. My belts are no longer in date either, which would disqualify them according to NHRA rules also.

The NHRA also outlines the 90 degree I stated above, but in addition, they specify the 4" rule. Again, I believe that's to ensure the shoulder belts are always operated at the correct angles. I doubt tech is going to measure the actual angle of the belts in reference to the drivers body position. Ain't nobody got time for that.

I insure my belts are configured safely for myself and any occupants who ride in my vehicle, which is what I care about.

 

[GSXftw]

Im not sure how good the plastics will end up without sourcing some from a manual belt galant, but doing 2G belts is what comes to mind. You guys need to remember the fact that doing harnesses is a big step, since most expire every 2 years, and arent DOT legal. So unless youre running 11.5 or better, dont bother. Do a stock belt that you dont have to recirtify. It saved a good amount of weight too
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