Question for cyclone intake manifold owners

[citymunky]

I'm been thinking of running a Cyclone intake on my car for a while now, I just don't if the cams I have would be a good match up with the cyclone. I have a Extrude Hone 1g intake manifold, a TH05-20G that will be bolted to a FP exhaust manifold, and HKS 272's. Is it a dumb idea to run that switch up my setup with a Cyclone? The goal of the car is good street car,

What cams and turbo are you using with your cyclone?

 

[belize1334]

I'm running stock cams and stock turbo.

The point of the cyclone is to use the narrower, longer runners at low rpm and then open the shorter runners at high rpm for better flow. If you had it extrude-honed I see no reason that it wouldn't flow just as well as your 1G but with better torque down low. I suspect that this would work equally well with any cam setup but that you'd have to tune it for the proper switch point. Basically go to the dyno and do a run with the butterflies fully on and another run with them fully off. Then get an rpm switch and set it to activate about 100rpm below the point where the two dyno plots cross. That'll allow for time delay in the switching and ensure that the manifold is in the "proper" mode for your engine at all times.

 

[citymunky]

I know what the point of the cyclone is. The reason I want to run it is to help "make up" the low end TQ I will lose when I install the 272's, but I'm unsure how the top-end would be effected. I know the top end is not the best with cyclone with peak HP being 6300ish RPM's with a smaller turbo and cams. I suspect using 272's would help with the top-end, or would it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

I like the dyno idea, but once install a intake manifold (EH or cyclone) I would mostly likely keep it that way. The IM is a PITA to pull on a car with A/C.

 

[beaner]

The cyclone flows identical to a stock 1g manifold up top.

Last month I swapped from a stock 1g manifold to a cyclone and 1" phenolic spacer in the interest of making the runners a little longer. Pulling out of the garage and driving around the side streets was a night and day difference. Cyclone manifold is one of the best mods I have done. I will probably always run one on every street 4g63 I bother with.

I also run 272s. I didn't notice a difference with them vs stock as far as driving around off boost.

 

[citymunky]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worthy.gifThanks for the input. BTW what turbo are you running? Also are you controlling the valves with RPM's signal or boost pressure?

 

[beaner]

Turbonetics 60-1. I use RPM with a hacked up shift light. I'd do it with dsmlink but I want to experiment with water/alch injection someday.

 

[CutlassJim]

Quoting citymunky:
The reason I want to run it is to help "make up" the low end TQ I will lose when I install the 272's, but I'm unsure how the top-end would be effected. I know the top end is not the best with cyclone with peak HP being 6300ish RPM's with a smaller turbo and cams. I suspect using 272's would help with the top-end, or would it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif



I have a friend who had a bone stock 91 minus a KN filter, 272s and a turbo back exhaust. I was amazed at how hard the car pulled all the way to 7000 rpm.

Quoting citymunky:
I know what the point of the cyclone is.



Quoting citymunky:
]Thanks for the input. BTW what turbo are you running? Also are you controlling the valves with RPM's signal or boost pressure?



Do you? The switch point of the manifold is AIRFLOW dependent not boost dependent so why would you have it activate with boost? The method of doing a dyno run with the butterflies open and then closed is the only way to determine the crossover point on a modified engine.

 

[citymunky]

Yes I do, but as you should know some are use a T25 Wastegate to control the buttlerflie valves. Like these people here in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTeHMaNO5to

I plan on controlling it via the EGR valve using DS-Map's Werewolf.

 

[beaner]

What's a dyno?

I think the wg actuator idea is ok assuming you only do normal city driving and your turbo happens to hit the actuating psi around 4k rpm. I know with a smaller turbo cruising on the highway in 5th, that actuator would move instantly.

You really want to switch it by RPM. Factory switchover point is 4100rpm I think. Everyone seems to stay around that. You can play with it all day long though to find that sweet spot. Because every setup and situation is at different psi/airflow ~4000rpm, I don't think it's airflow or boost dependent. Simply RPM.

 

[fuel]

Quoting belize1334:
I'm running stock cams and stock turbo.

The point of the cyclone is to use the narrower, longer runners at low rpm and then open the shorter runners at high rpm for better flow. If you had it extrude-honed I see no reason that it wouldn't flow just as well as your 1G but with better torque down low. I suspect that this would work equally well with any cam setup but that you'd have to tune it for the proper switch point. Basically go to the dyno and do a run with the butterflies fully on and another run with them fully off. Then get an rpm switch and set it to activate about 100rpm below the point where the two dyno plots cross. That'll allow for time delay in the switching and ensure that the manifold is in the "proper" mode for your engine at all times.


The runners are the same length. The AMG manifold is how you have described it but not the JDM cyclone manifold. It works by port velocity rather than tuned length for any given rpms.

 

[CutlassJim]

Quoting citymunky:
Yes I do, but as you should know some are use a T25 Wastegate to control the buttlerflie valves. Like these people here in this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTeHMaNO5to

I plan on controlling it via the EGR valve using DS-Map's Werewolf.



The way it is hooked up in that video is INCORRECT. At best it is giving you the bare minimum of the benefits of the manifold. Let me repeat myself. The butterflies opening point is AIRFLOW based not BOOST based. You could be running 1000 psi and still be under the airflow point at which you want them to open. Plus the way it is hooked up in the video makes different turbo's different boost thresholds open the butterflies at different points when the turbo has almost nothing to do with the switchover point.

 

[citymunky]

Dude what is your problem?

Did you not read, I plan on controlling it via the EGR valve using DS-Map's Werewolf.? I already own this program, why would I waste my time and money on the Bullshit T25 WG mod. I know that the WG mod is lazy and wrong. I was simply asking beaner how was he running his Cyclone, since I seen it controlled Via RPM's (ECMlink using EGR Valve, DIY RPM Switch, KeyDiver Chip, JDM ECU) and Boost Via (T25 WG).

 

[CutlassJim]

So what was the point of you posting that video showing me how some people hook it up wrong when I already stated that people hook it up wrong? I don't want sh*t video's like that spreading misinformation and confusing noobs or giving the manifold a bad name.

The biggest gains you would see would be from the runners being closed and being at high boost at a low rpm, right when Touchhole Racing is telling you they should open with their super sweet WG mod.

 

[citymunky]

Because yon said this "The switch point of the manifold is AIRFLOW dependent not boost dependent so why would you have it activate with boost" in reaction to me asking beaner "Also are you controlling the valves with RPM's signal or boost pressure?"

I just showing what I was talking about when I said controlled with Boost Pressure. I never said it was smart, but rather that it's been done.

Hopefully with this being said we (belize1334, beaner, you and me)are all on the same page. Controlling the switching point via RPM's is the real way to use this manifold.