OEM main bolts

[belize1334]

OEM main bolts are good to about 500hp but when paired with a girdle people have clearance issues so the kiggley main girdle REQUIRES arp main studs, which have a lower profile at the top due to the 12pt nut.

The OEM main bolt set actually comes with a single stud that, I presume, is used for mounting the oil pickup tube? see pic

If instead of running 9 bolts and one stud we were to instead run 10 studs (and if necessary swap in 12pt nuts) wouldn't that accomplish the same thing as with arp hardware vis-a-vis clearance but without necessitating a line-hone for the main caps? Does anyone have a part number for that one stud?

 

[GSTwithPSI]

I was under the impression running a girdle required align boring the main caps anyways? The girdle can distort the main cap alignment when torqued down. Don't know about a part number for the stud though...

 

[belize1334]

I believe that only applies when the mains have already been honed because it makes the tops not flat and the girdle pulls an distorts them. I think as long as the tops are flat then only reason you need arp is for clearance.

 

[EHmotorsports]

If the arp's have a higher torque spec then you need an Aline hone. No question about it.

 

[belize1334]

Right, that's the point. The clamp from the arp hardware necessitates a line hone. And with the clearance issue the girdle necessitates arp hardware. But I'm trying to see if that single OEM stud could be substituted across the board and thereby avoid the need for arp hardware and, thus, avoid the need for a line hone.

 

[EHmotorsports]

no it will need a hone. we run into this problem when we are trying to source out new/old main caps for mini engines. 99% of the time it will need a hone. the other times why chance it?

 

[belize1334]

You're saying it will need a hone even with OEM main studs? Why?

 

[Street Surgeon]

I've *heard* that in many cases even a block with ARP's won't need to be align-honed, the mains are only tq'd to ~52-60 ft/lbs vs. the factory settings of x ft lbs plus a 90* turn. As long as it all still measures out good why would you need to have the block align honed?

 

[EHmotorsports]

OP,In the end it's my opinion so do what you will. Why chance it? It's not that much more to have someone Aline hone the mains. plus you can have it checked to verify it does not need one before they performed a hone. you are assuming a lot when you think the mains are aligned perfect before.
If you are building anything high performance wouldn't you want the peace of mind knowing everything is perfect?

 

[Street Surgeon]

I'm asking, if you tq it all down and everything measures out within spec, why would you need to have the block align honed?

 

[mitsuturbo]

Align honing isn't exactly an exorbitantly or prohibitively expensive process. If the block is already getting prepped at the machine shop, why skip it?

Also, in regard to the stud with the threaded end..


Rather than run that stud for the oil pickup tube, why not just run a 2g oil pickup tube?

This is what i used. Worked out great.

 

[89Patches]

Stop trying to be cheap. ARP mains are like $70 and the block can be align honed in 5 minutes.

 

[GSTwithPSI]

Quoting Street Surgeon:
I'm asking, if you tq it all down and everything measures out within spec, why would you need to have the block align honed?



^This. I would drop in the ARP studs, torque everything town and see where you stand. If everything is in spec, then leave it. Paying for unnecessary work "just because" is stupid.

 

[belize1334]

Quoting 89Patches:
Stop trying to be cheap. ARP mains are like $70 and the block can be align honed in 5 minutes.



This is not helpful. The point isn't to be "cheap". The point is that arp hardware isn't necessary in many cases but is required due to fitment issues. What's wrong with trying to come at the fitment problem from a different direction? Also, there's debate about whether the arp hardware aligned the caps as well as the OEM hardware. MachV sells a bushing that supposedly addresses this but to my mind the most elegant solution is to figure out a way to make OEM mains work. Yes, I will be cutting off the arm on the oil pickup regardless of the hardware. I don't like the idea of one cap having a different alloy between the fasteners and the block. But by the same token, I don't like the idea of running 9 bolts and 1 stud because you can never be consistent with how the studs vs bolts apply clamping load. I'd rather just run 10 studs. So, back to the original question please...

Does anyone know of that solitary OEM main stud would address the clearance issues associated with a kingly girdle?

Does anyone know the part number for that stud?

 

[Street Surgeon]

Quoting 89Patches:
Stop trying to be cheap. ARP mains are like $70 and the block can be align honed in 5 minutes.


You should probably have your cam caps align honed too then, you know, just cuz /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[89Patches]

Why do you even want to run a gridle in the first place? Are you revving your motor to 9K+ rpm? no probably not. So I really don't see a point of you even doing this.
Just seems like a waste of time to me, well unless you want to be different.

But whatever do what you want it's your motor, You can try to reinvent the wheel if you want....

 

[BogusSVO]

No, not every block needs align honed with the use of ARP studs, I would say 1 out of 5 needs it.

I will install the ARP mans, then check the main bores, if they fall in spec. go on with the build.

If it dose not, then align hone.

The use of the girdle doesn't mean you need an align hone either.

The girdle prevents the main caps from flexing towards one another.

On a side note, I have checked blocks that need align hone with ARP studs, then pulled the ARP out and put the factory bolts back in and checked the main bore again, It still needed to be align hone.

So basically this....

ARP main studs does not mean you have to have align hone.
Factory bolts does not mean you do not need an align hone.

 

[mitsuturbo]

I agree with this completely.

Have it checked for spec... If it needs it, do it. If not, proceed.
At least that's how i've always gone about it. I kind of think it's a given that you'd check to make sure it NEEDS to be done before actually having it done. Reputable/honest machinists will tell you whether or not it should be done. There's usually a minimal charge that goes with setting it up and checking it, and that's money well spent.

 

[belize1334]

^^ That's good info. Anyway, I emailed extremepsi who informs me that they're actually ALL bolts but that one of them has a stud attached at the top. So While that one piece is unique, it's not a stud per se.

 

[iceman69510]

that is correct. The factory bolt just has a threaded stud type end.