Initial performance tune - Boost and Timing targets

[matt92vr4]

Hi guys, sorry to beat a dead horse. I'm looking for basic boost and timing targets to start. I've got about 10k miles on my engine and I'm ready to start upping the performance. This is my first real hooray with a Galant. I'm currently at 12psi and 21 degrees at 7k rpm.

9:1 wisco
eagle rods
evo8 springs and retainers
arp bolts
hks 264/272 cams
cyclone intake
evo9 intercooler
evo3 16g turbo
950cc injectors
3" exhaust
ecmlink v3
2g maf
93 pump gas (no e85 around here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif )


Currently at a global fuel correction and everything else untouched. Runs like a champ. Obviously every car is different. I'm going to tune wisely with the wideband and monitoring knock, but what kind of numbers should I shoot for at test and tune and on the dyno? 20psi? It seems like my timing is quite high compared to others I've read about. Thank you very much for any advice. -Matt

Sh

 

[EfiniX]

No fixed numbers given the vast differences in engine bits and such. As a rule, start turning up your boost a pound or two at a time, do a few pulls, and watch for knock. If you see knock, pull timing. If you don't set knock, turn the boost up a bit more.

Oh, and keep a log so you can track your changes. I found excel to be fairly helpful for that.

 

[GSXftw]

Thats a good lookin build/foundation. If you have ARP headstuds, then you can pretty much do as much as the turbo will allow lol. Yes you can spike hard but 16G usually fall off to 22 or so by redline. You do get to the point of diminishing returns, where youre trading timing/fuel for boost, and will just have to find that sweet spot. On that turbo and pump, 18-20 psi is a great number. At that point you'd be lucky if youre still in the teens for timing advance (BTW have you verified 5* base?) If youre gonna stick with pump, definitely look into water/meth inj. Your IATs will be in the 115-120 area, which really hurts pump gas tunes. Cool IATs are your friend with pump.
BTW E85 is 3 hrs away for me, and its still worth the drive /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Just keep a drum at the house and grab fuel jugs whenever Im going that way.

 

[EfiniX]

Man, I wish I could find E85 anywhere close in Portland, I might go that route. The 92oct gas in this state is garbage.it just means I'll have to go with meth injection, but that's a whole thing...

For my part, I'm running a T3/T04 frankenstein turbo with an 54 trim and .60 ar. it moves air like a 20g I'm to understand. I'm at 22psi, which is conservative for this turbo, running timing around 7* @ the boost threshold, then getting up to around 10* at redline. My intake temps are around 80-90* these days with the help of an ETS intercooler. I'm also running speed density, which changes how the tuning is done a bit. But in the end, whether you are running a MAF or SD, just get everything stable and predictable, then start turning up the boost and dropping the timing to avoid knock. Go until you are happy.

 

[matt92vr4]

Thanks for the response guys. Yes I'm sure my base timing is set. It sounds like I need to bring the timing down a lot, increase the boost, and then bring the timing up. Right now timing logs 17 and climbs to 21. Maybe I will bring that down 10 degrees to start, creep the boost up to 20, and then bring the timing up. The air is finally nice and cold here, one of the few good times to go to the track all year. Thanks! -Matt

 

[GSXftw]

Quoting EfiniX:
Man, I wish I could find E85 anywhere close in Portland, I might go that route. The 92oct gas in this state is garbage.it just means I'll have to go with meth injection, but that's a whole thing...




I show Jay's Garage, 734 SE 7th ave, portland OR 97214

Either way youre closer than me to where I go, SeQuential Biofuels, 86714 McVay hwy, Eugene OR 97405
Myself and many others have yet to get a batch from there that doesnt test 90%, even in the dead of winter. Im gonna give the disclaimer of YMMV, but my experiences were after 20 psi, pump gas was wack, on 50/50 water meth I added 5-10 psi, AND 4-7* of timing. Then on E85, I had more timing available above that. Yes I couldve sprayed straight meth or what not, but E85 is definitely a better option if you can get it

 

[GSTwithPSI]

E85 was the best upgrade I've ever done. FWIW, the closest station to me is 20 miles away.

 

[EfiniX]

Hmm. I know jays. Ghetto as hell, but looks are looks and gas is gas. That's close enough to warrant a second look I think...

 

[Mdlimy]

Yea im almost to the point of just filling up a couple 55gal drums from Jays, i think there is another place in hillsboro?

Getting off topic but ugh i want e85!

 

[GSXftw]

Hays oil delivers it to you by the drum, but it ends up being 3.60/gal, vs the 2.49 you pay at the pump in eugene.

 

[JoeDaddy0]

how are you locating e85 stations? using Yelp? I tried to find constant 101 unleaded all the way to LA CA. It would be nice to be able to locate e85 or 101 octane for full time use in travel.

 

[Breakerrr]

click
This is a great e85 locator

 

[tektic]

My setup is very close to yours. I'm at ~12* and 24lbs by 6500

 

[NateCrisman]

Meth injection has worked wonders for my GVR4. with straight 93 octane, It was a mid 12 second 112-113mph car and probably wouldn't crack 400 on a denote - running like 24psi boost with the timing pulled way back to keep it out of knock. With a single M10 nozzle spraying 100% methanol: Car ran 10.9@129mph, puts down nearly 600whp, and runs upwards of 36psi boost with 19* timing advance...with 93 octane in the fuel tank. E85 isn't available around me, so the meth injection was just a better solution for me than trying to deliver/source ethanol to run as a main fuel.

Basically, Im saying the methanol injection kicks ass and you should do that. (once you get a handle on tuning with link, and get your straight pump gas tune squared away).

on 16g with 93 octane...Id be looking to get to about 20-22psi of boost at redline and try to keep the timing above 10-12* without the knock sensor pulling any. In my experience, once you start pulling large chunks of timing to keep the car off the knock sensor, your fighting a losing battle with the timing costing you more power than the additional 1-2psi of boost is gaining.