Head gasket issue

[971of1000]

I just got the motor together. Decked head, block machined with je eagle combo. I am running a felpro permatorque hg with copper spray with arp head studs. It was leaking oil and coolant from both sides of the motor In four spots total. Would it be possible my torque wrench isn't accurate?

 

[Launch]

copper spray on the perma tq HG? ... If its machined correctly and tq right why would you even think about using copper spray? ... copper is soft and doesnt hold up to heat very well, and will work its way past the sealing surfaces and into the pan. copper and rod/main bearings dont mix FYI.

Recheck assembly. 4 spots leaking? If its not the studs at fault than your sealing surfaces arnt flat/within spec

 

[971of1000]

I have always used a thin layer of copper spray on any MLS hg I have run

 

[Launch]

When the Head and block are expanding at different rates what is keeping the seal? MLS requires a mirror flat finish.... Otherwise the grooves from the machines cutting tool are large enough to cause the MLS hg to unseal and leak comp gases into the coolant sys.

Doesnt the expensive permatq HG have a moly-like sealing compound allready on it? ... Sounds like you might have to much stuff in there

 

[971of1000]

Should I tear it down and clean the copper off it then?

 

[Ben]

I'm in the same boat. I have apr head studs and Mitsu MLS gasket that I also sprayed copper coat on. My head I know was not machined for a metal head gasket. On the dyno once we got into the 600s, my coolant overflow would fill in a second or 2, then the dump hose would spew coolant like a water hose on full blast for a second or so. After I figure out a few tuning issues, I'm going to rip my head off, have it machined again and o-ringed. Then get me another mitsu mls gasket(or whatever an o-ringed head requires) and a set of L19s.

 

[turbowop]

I don't put down 600whp, but I haven't had any issues with my MLS gasket leaking. I had the head machined pretty standard (not a mirror finish), checked the block deck for flatness, cleaned it off and threw the gasket on with a thin coat of copper. Put the head on with ARP's and it's been fine since '03. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

 

I sprayed a thin coat of copper on mine as well with an MLS gasket and had no worries. I would check your studs first, make sure they are torqued correctly. It isn't uncommon for a head to have one low spot but four after being machined is uncommon. It just seems like your head isn't on as tight as it shoud be.

 

[971of1000]

see thats what I thought too but the torque specs are all even and at the 80ft/lbs. I have heard that when the moly lube gets washed out then the torque specs can change on some head studs from people with different vehicles but have not really confirmed this. I wonder if maybe the studs are stretched? I have had them in one motor for about 5000 miles and have been torqued once on there and then in this new motor. I am going to probably pull the head this weekend if I cant figure it out.

 

[iceman69510]

Quoting 971of1000:
I am running a felpro permatorque hg with copper spray with arp head studs.



As mentioned above once, a permatorque type head gasket probably doesn't like anything else polluting the interface. It has a coating already.

 

[971of1000]

should i just tear it down and clean off the copper spray then?

 

[Brianawd]

I coated my fel-pro mls with copper spray. I use L19 head studds torqued to 100ft/lbs. Also I have reused a fel-pro mls gasket befor. I just cleaned off all the coating and respryed with copper spray.

 

[971of1000]

L19s don't stretch like the standards have the potential to do

 

[PreskitVR4]

i have been told by some supra guys, and believe me, they know about head gasket issues, that there is a coating on some performance gaskets that copper-seal likes to eat. i have used ARPs and a used Evergreen MLS with all the black stuff stripped off with a coating of copper-seal, no issues. i cant remember what the black stuff is, but apparently, that is what is affected by the copper. all though, my machinist, can achieve an 8 RA, that could be where my good luck comes from.

 

[971of1000]

An 8ra?

 

[beaner]

I've been told that the supra guys will spray paint with lacquer black the block deck before putting the head on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dunno.gif Anyone ever hear of this?

I will only put the copper spray on a metal head gasket. Never on a composite and never on a hg like the permatorque, which already has some kind of laminated rubber seal already on it.

YMMV

 

[thedsmguy]

I just use a composite and hope it holds 400hp.

I dread the day I need to make more then that, that stuff gets very expensive!

 

[mitsuturbo]

Quoting Brianawd:
I coated my fel-pro mls with copper spray. I use L19 head studds torqued to 100ft/lbs. Also I have reused a fel-pro mls gasket befor. I just cleaned off all the coating and respryed with copper spray.


I have reused a mitsu MLS gasket up to twice with no HG issues. Back then i was using aluminum paint, rather than copper. As long as everything is flat and true, and the gasket is in good condition and clean, there should not be a problem. OP's problem to me, sounds like a problem of some machine work having been done incorrectly, or improper assembly of some sort. Copper paint generally works better than aluminum paint, from my understanding.

A torque wrench could be bad, sure... but your arm and hand shouldn't be off by more than about 15% if you're experienced.

 

[mitsuturbo]

Quoting 971of1000:
It was leaking oil and coolant from both sides of the motor In four spots total.



On second though.. this is alarming. Are you sure you didn't torque it to INCH pounds, rather than FOOT pounds? Leaking oil AND coolant from 4 places is really something!

 

[iceman69510]

Let's be sure we are talking about the same things here. If I have this correct, the original poster stated he used a Fel Pro permatorque, not a metal head gasket. These head gaskets are not reusable. Permatorque type have the slippery coating to accommodate differing head and block expansion rates, so no other material should be introduced into that situation preferably.