First engine build

[Fish]

Hey everyone, I've finally decided to build an engine for 392. I've built plenty of engines so I know how to do most everything but they have all been stock builds and never a 4g63. I'm fairly new to the performance world so I'm probably going to have tons of stupid questions.

I'm not looking to make all the power in the world but want the car to be fun to drive. I've got an hx35w and plan on using an evo 8 ecu. I've already made a harness for the ecu but haven't run the car on it yet. My plan is to get the stock engine running with a good base tune while the new engine is being built.

First, I'm trying to decide on what balancer to run. I've heard mixed reviews about the fluidampr balancers. Are there any other good options other than fluidampr or a stock one?

Second I'm trying to decide what oil pump to use. This is something that I'm not willing to cheap out on. I want a good quality pump. I'd like to know of everyone's experiences with different pumps and what is going to be best for me.

Thanks for any input on my build. I'm sure everybody will help me out.

 

[jeverts]

OEM Mitsu Oil pump. Really no other options unless you go to a dry sump setup. Or Frontline Fab ever finishes there oil pump.

 

[slugsgomoo]

Jeverts is right about the oil pump.

I'm running a fluidampr and I've never seen anything negative about them other than by people trying to justify the double cost of the ATI or that they were cheap ass dsmers justifying being cheap /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif That said, nothing wrong with the OEM part but I'd urge you to get a new one, as if the old ones come apart they can have catastrophic consequences. I think a new OEM is about a hundred bucks. You can order a fluidampr on amazon for ~280.

 

[Fish]

If I go the oem route I would definitely buy a new one as the original got tossed when I pulled the core engine.

My biggest concern is if it was to come apart down the road wouldn't I need to have it balanced to my engine again? My machine shop told me they balance the rotating assembly then bolt up the balancer and flywheel, then they are balanced to the engine.

Am I just over thinking all of this or is this something that would actually matter?

 

[Street Surgeon]

I've owned both the fluidampr, and the ati superdamper. The difference is the fluidampr uses the stock lower timing gear/cog, and the ATI comes with it's own cog which some people (who are much smarter and have made much, much more power than myself) have mentioned is superior. Also, the old fluidampr pulleys were not marked correctly causing many an engine to be timed wrong :-/ As for the oil pump, go OEM all the way man. Don't mess with that frontline fab guy, he tends to use his customers as R&D folks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Of course, do the oil mods to the head like clear the casting flash, port the oil galley, you might want to purchase a Kiggly HLA restrictor, you can port the oil pump paths, remove the balance shafts, port the oil filter housing, blah blah blah. There are a million little tricks with these engines!

 

[Fish]

While stripping the block I pulled the rear main plate off and this metal ring fell out. It is a little bent up. Is it like a seal retainer or some type of oil slinger? How exactly is it installed?

 

[GTX]

It is a main seal retainer. Put a new seal in then this one. It sits beween the seal and the block once the seal body is attached to the block. It prevents the seal from moving towards the block.

 

[prove_it]

The hole must be aligned too. Cant remember if its straight up or straight down.

 

[Fish]

Wouldn't it be straight down so the oil can drain from between it and the seal?

 

[tektic]

Yes

 

[Fish]

So I've got a local old school dsm guy that is trying to give me build advice. I think he is very opinionated. He is telling me that:

1. The factory crank is good up to 650 hp. I've heard this but also seen them break around 450hp.

2. Hks 272s or pro comp equivalent cams would not be any better than a set of factory 93-94 cams.

3. I know that this was a pretty big debate in the past and I don't want to start a big argument , but. A 7 blade holset hx35 is not a good larger frame turbo for the 4g63 engine. He says that on diesel turbos charge air temp and compressor efficiency are low priority so it's not a good choice.

4. The evo 8 ecu is not proven to work correct on a 1g dsm or a galant vr4.

What do you guys think of all this. He is very well known around town but I'm not sure what to think of him.

 

[jeverts]

1. True. The factory crank is a very good crank. I am running a factory crank and will be in the 600whp range. The rods are the weak point. 1g rods are good to about the 500hp range.

2. False. HKS made some of the best cams on the market. You can get different ones but would suggest getting cam gears.

3. A lot of guys run HX turbos with success. I am not a fan of them because they are a turbo that is designed for diesel engines. The price is what is so appealing with them. I would go for the turbo that is design for 2.0L cars before going to a HX turbo.

4. I would just find a 1g eprom ECU. You will thank me when you wire up the car and go to tune it.

 

[Tommyd]

Everything that Jverts said basically. I'm not on here a terrible amount but personally I'm running an hx40 6 blade with a .55ar BEP flange and at 32psi with e85 its a monster with not much lag,I still hit 30psi right around 4k. Over at tuners they have a page dedicated to the different holset set ups and results, and they are probably one of the best bang for your buck turbos.

And for number 4, search this site more. I know there are a few guys on here who made harnesses to run evo 8 ecus and have done so with out issue. The one thing that impresses me in ecmlink. On a stock ecu, it has more than enough tuning ability and tons of options. Options like multiple injector systems and controlling water meth injection. Oh, and people would get mad if i didnt say control your rad fans.

 

[Fish]

I'm still on the fence about e85. There is only one gas station that sells it here and last I looked they like to charge out the ass for it. I've also heard that the e85 is bad for the rubber fuel lines and other fuel system components. Is this actually true? If so, what needs to be changed?

I do plan on at least trying the evo ecu since I already have one and made a jumper harness for it.

I'm also a huge fan of the holsets from the diesel world, they are very impressive and I've only ever seen one fail. I'm at the very least going to try it out and see how I like it.

 

[Tommyd]

I've only had one bad experience with e85 and that was when I let my Saabaru sit for 5 months unused and I had to clean my fuel rails and injectors. The "black goo" clogged everything. That being said, in the gvr4 I've been running it in the stock lines with 0 issues. Some people have it affect their fuel rail and lines, others have had no issues.

I did run the holset on pump at 18 psi(wastegate pressure) and its still a monster, but with e85 the thing is a beast. Before I moved to where e85 was feasible, I just did water meth to get a little more out of the set up

 

[tektic]

You should really consider your convenience to be a higher prioritiy. If only one station you know of sells e85 how could you even consider it? What happens when the swap out their tank or run out of fuel? I don't know how far away it is but you'd have to plan your trips to the gas station differently.

If your not considering a stock body turbo every exhaust and turbo piece will need to be custom fit together in one way or another. The stock pieces were engendered to fit pretty well while being efficient. The cost and availablity is also tough to beat. A custom turbo system is definitely not a bad thing but it makes it hard to get replacement parts and the original system will be upwards of 3x the cost of a stock bodied configuration.

Some things worth also goth considering.
Projected budget! Make a parts break down of what you think everything should cost you. And then add 60% and that will be your real budget. That's if everything works the first time or way you do it.

 

[Fish]

Thanks for all the good advice so far. I'm pretty sure I'll be running pump gas since I work in a different town than I live in and there is no e85 for about 20 miles.

As for the holset, I'm going to run it and be making my own piping for it so if I end up not liking it I won't really be out too much, Just my time.

Jeverts, why do you say good luck tuning the evo 8 ecu?

Also I'm deciding on what to do with oil squirters. They seem like a pretty good idea to me but do they actually do much. I'm thinking that if I don't delete them I'll probably try to find some new ones. Is there much benefit either way?

Thanks again.

 

[tektic]

Oil squirters are pretty easily cleaned, however it is important to put in new seals when reinstalling.

I don't feel they are detrimental to a build but they do add some extra wrist pin lubrication as well as some temperature relife for the pistons. If you have removed the balance shafts its a good idea to keep them just to help keep oil pressure down. You will still have to modify the pressure relief valve if the balance shafts are removed so keep that in mind.