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Bad understeer

dsm10o0

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Jun 16, 2010
Messages
680
Location
San Jose CA
Went up on a little mountain run earlier in the galant for fun. The steering is really sh!tty with understeer. This is the first time I've brought it up a mountain. The car has kyb agx's set to 3 on front and 2 on the rear with some hnr springs. It also has front and rear eBay strut bars. Is there any other things I can do to the suspension besides the sway bars?
 
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4thStroke

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Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,864
Location
Vancouver, WA
You could try a rear toe eliminator kit.

Do you still have a functional rear steering rack in the car?

The AGXs aren't helping the car.
 

Olson

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Oct 7, 2006
Messages
1,237
Location
Moreno Valley CA
do a 2 front three rear. higher tire pressure in the rear. from there you can go sways or better shocks and spring. I run stock sway in the front and no sway in the rear but i have enough spring to handle this and was what i intended to do, makes for fast transition in auto-x
 

belize1334

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Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Messages
3,317
Location
Bozeman, MT
Oh boy, a handling thread... just my lucky day!

We have a solid iron block which sits IN FRONT of the front axle in order to accomodate the AWD system. That means that understeer and slow turn-in are simply facts of life. But, there are steps that you can take to help tone it back.

1) For the love of god disable the AWS system. There are those who keep it because it offers nice lane-changing characteristics on the freeway and it's one of the few things that separates us from DSMs... but if you want your car to handle predictably then drop it like it's hot!

2) Front camber is your friend. Get more off it. With factory diameter front springs you won't get more than a degree out of camber plates so you'll need camber bolts. One set will get you ~1.2* neg front camber. Two sets will double that. I'd start with one and go from there. Also, in my experience the only difference between "camber bolts" and regular bolts is that camber bolts are harder to install. I ran for over a year with a set of one size smaller grade 10.9 bolts in the bottom slot and never once had them slip. Now I have plates which I prefer but for serious handling you'll want both.

3) Tires. The front always works first and hardest. With shitty tires it will always understeer. Better tires will let the front grip long enough for the back to start playing and you might have a prayer of finding a neutral feeling.

4) Shocks & springs... decent handling can be had on stock-ish springs though you'll get a fair bit of corner lean which is bad for quick transitions. If you start to get serious you'll want 300lb/in front, 225lb/in back at a minimum. On tarmac more is better up to about 600lb/in where opinions start to diverge. But say goodby to your smooth ride. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for shocks. AGXs are rough and unforgiving so unless you're driving on glass they're gonna hold the car back. Konis are good. Bilstein are better but they don't make HD for the dsm so you'll need to some retrofitted bimmer parts like mine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

5) Anti-roll bars. I disagree with the "big in the back - stock up front" solution. Lots of people do it but it's a bandaid for people not maximizing front grip. Get some camber to keep the front tires stuck and then go "big in back - big in front" to help minimize body roll. I have RM rear (~23mm) and WL front (22mm). If I were really serious I'd have the bigger WL (24mm front 26mm back) but as it is I think my driving is a bigger issue than my bars.

Now, what you choose to implement depends entirely on your goals and what you're willing to sacrifice. For now, I'd say grab some front camber and an RM rear swaybar. That'll help ALOT. Also get some nice summer tires. Dunlop star-spec are supposed to be the best bang-for-your-buck these days. Then think about ditching those KYBs for a pair of Konis.
 
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alansupra94

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Mar 3, 2010
Messages
1,909
Location
Wayne,NJ
We should open a new section for suspension and belize1334 as the moderator. All in favor say I.
 

DR1665

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Joined
Oct 19, 2005
Messages
4,643
Location
Iowa City, IA
Solid info, 1334.

Leave us not forget driver skill. True, these cars are prone to understeer, but I suspect practice and skill can go a long way toward mitigating this without necessarily replacing half the running gear. You could have $10,000 in gear under a car and still experience understeer.

Brake in the straight.
Back on the throttle to settle the chassis into and through the corner.
Squeeze back on the throttle while you unwind the steering wheel on the other side.
 

dsm10o0

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Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
680
Location
San Jose CA
Thanks for the great info belize1334.
I have a full 91 dsm rear end on mine with a 3 bolt lsd, 4ws delete and 5 lug conversion with evo9 enkies on nitto nt05 tires. Ill be getting those camber bolts and see if it'll help.
 

4thStroke

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Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
1,864
Location
Vancouver, WA
You could also start replacing suspension bushings. The Whiteline caster bushings help the car a lot.
 
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