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Trans shim question


tektic
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1237388 posted 05/22/17 08:18 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
OK... another bearing shim question. I was getting measurements of 1.56mm and 1.67 but now with smaller pieces of solder it looks to be closer to 1.45mm

I have shimmed it with .14 + 1.5 based on the earlier numbers. But now that I'm thinking about it, this seems wrong. So now it looks like I'm out of spec by .12mm. Wish I left out the second shim.

How much of a problem is this going to be? I don't want to take it apart again. I don't want it to break either.

I can't turn the diff by hand but it easily moves with pliers. The trans is able to go through every gear.



7 1G DSM's now a GGSX build.

Posts: 1365 | From: ronkonkoma, ny | Member Since: 12/19/12 | IP: (63.136.116.128) | Report this post to a Moderator

FlyingEagle
Doesn't Match Anything


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1237390 posted 05/22/17 10:06 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Tapered bearings have to have preload, ball and cage have a free play spec IIRC. All shafts have to have preload (unless noted), otherwise when things warm up .... they may not have the designed pressure acting on them and therefore may have free play. See where this is going? Free play bad except where ball and cages are concerned, within reason.

I gave my trans to a shop just for this reason, along with a sheet of intended bearing preload and free play I was looking for based upon the transmission preload sheet (HP/torque rating chart) that was listed on the site years ago.

I use an AWD ball and cage setup in my FWD trans, thus the need for free play.

Here is what was posted here as a cross post from what Tim Zimmer had on another forum years ago.

Quote:


The following is for W5M33 AWD 5-speed DSM transmissions:

Ok, stock specs are:

The Preload Setting is listed in SAE (inches):

Input Shaft --> 0.000" - 0.002" ENDPLAY
Intermediate Shaft --> 0.003" - 0.005" PRELOAD
Center Differential --> 0.003" - 0.005" PRELOAD
Output Shaft --> 0.003" - 0.005" PRELOAD
Front Differential --> 0.002" - .0067" ENDPLAY

These are what I normally use:

Stock/Street Transmissions with less than 400TQ at the crank:

Input Shaft --> 0.004" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Intermediate Shaft --> 0.005" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Center Differential --> 0.005" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Output Shaft --> 0.003" - 0.005" PRELOAD
Front Differential --> 0.002" - .0067" ENDPLAY

Street/Strip Transmissions with less than 600TQ at the crank:

Input Shaft --> 0.005" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Intermediate Shaft --> 0.007" - 0.009" PRELOAD
Center Differential --> 0.005" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Output Shaft --> 0.003" - 0.005" PRELOAD
Front Differential --> 0.002" - .0067" ENDPLAY

All out RACE Transmissions that are Rebuilt/Inspected regularly with more than 600TQ at the crank:

Input Shaft --> 0.007" PRELOAD
Intermediate Shaft --> 0.008" - 0.010" PRELOAD
Center Differential --> 0.005" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Output Shaft --> 0.004" - 0.006" PRELOAD
Front Differential --> 0.002" - .0067" ENDPLAY

For Extremely HIGH HP/TQ transmissions (As in ~900-1000+TQ at the crank):

Input Shaft --> 0.007" PRELOAD
Intermediate Shaft --> 0.010" - 0.012" PRELOAD
Center Differential --> 0.005" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Output Shaft --> 0.004" - 0.006" PRELOAD
Front Differential --> 0.002" - .0067" ENDPLAY



These figures are normally what I use, unless a customer has a specific number they want to run for shims.

As well, each transmission rebuilder will shim differently, or not even reshim whatsoever (reusing stock shims). Most transmission rebuilders will not tell you these numbers whatsoever, as this is what makes their transmissions shift like butter with all the other mods that they do to the shift rails, hub and sliders, gears, linkage, etc.

I would recommend using a quality Micrometer that is accurate to 0.0001", and I normally do two or three seperate solder-tests per bearing race and then take the average of each test to see if there is anything out of the ordinary, and then I select the shim by adding the preload figure listed above to the solder average thickness, or subtract the endplay figure listed above from the solder average thickness.

If you need the part number for a shim, feel free to PM me, or reference a factory service manual for all the part numbers of shims for each transmission model.





C53A 1 of the ~1500

Posts: 1515 | From: THE Ottawa | Member Since: 03/05/05 | IP: (198.84.216.149) | Report this post to a Moderator

thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1237391 posted 05/22/17 10:59 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
A friend of mine locally (Mitsubishi Master Tech) took his Shep transmission apart to see what the difference was. He noted the primary difference was that Shep shimmed the crap out of his transmissions (outside of the normal hardened parts). This makes them balky when cold, but when warm they shift great. Practically have to force the case closed with the bolts or something to clamp it closed when tightening it.



Thom
1991 GVR-4 1025/2000 (PTE 1200's, 16g, DSMLink v3, gm-maf, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's)

Posts: 669 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Member Since: 09/24/14 | IP: (12.109.79.254) | Report this post to a Moderator

tektic
Senior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1237398 posted 05/22/17 12:23 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm a little over. Is it worth the 4 hours and the parts delivery for the miniscule difference?

I got standard and metric tolerances confused.


Edited by tektic (05/22/17 12:35 PM)

Posts: 1365 | From: ronkonkoma, ny | Member Since: 12/19/12 | IP: (208.168.247.11) | Report this post to a Moderator

thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1237400 posted 05/22/17 12:58 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting 1qkfwd:

Not only is he on the link forums he's on dsmtuners. His screen name i believe is twicks69. I've chatted with him quite a few times he's a good guy. He has had tons of dyno time on his 2g and lots of trans rebuilds on other cars to.




Check with Tim Zimmer. He could probably tell you if it is worthwhile or not.



Thom
1991 GVR-4 1025/2000 (PTE 1200's, 16g, DSMLink v3, gm-maf, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's)

Posts: 669 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Member Since: 09/24/14 | IP: (12.109.79.254) | Report this post to a Moderator

FlyingEagle
Doesn't Match Anything


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1237449 posted 05/23/17 12:05 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Quoting thomcasey:

A friend of mine locally (Mitsubishi Master Tech) took his Shep transmission apart to see what the difference was. He noted the primary difference was that Shep shimmed the crap out of his transmissions (outside of the normal hardened parts). This makes them balky when cold, but when warm they shift great. Practically have to force the case closed with the bolts or something to clamp it closed when tightening it.




Interesting find.

I know we all have issues with these transmission liking or not, to sink into gear quickly when cold, versus warm. My FWD DSM trans is no different even with newer parts installed (syncros/single or double).



C53A 1 of the ~1500

Posts: 1515 | From: THE Ottawa | Member Since: 03/05/05 | IP: (173.206.108.86) | Report this post to a Moderator


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