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Bolt on GVR4 front mount intercoolers


Mdlimy
Member
1137/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218226 posted 10/09/15 01:50 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
EDIT: I have moved the most current images and information in the top of this post.


****Please Note**** All these parts were built around a usdm galant with usdm bumper and support. I had no access to a JDM bumper therefor I cannot guarantee fitment with a JDM bumper although I do believe it will fit with no issues. I am happy to refund shipping costs and pay for return shipping for the first person that finds out that it doesn't fit.

Intercooler
-Vibrant 12839 600hp core 24" X 8" X 3.5"
-2.5" inlet/outlet
-Requires cutting of bumper support and some trimming of bumper cover
-Clears usdm fog lights
-Works with factory A/C and Radiator
-Works with up and down firing turbos
-$400 +shipping


Piping Kit
-2.5" polished mandrel bent aluminum tubing
-All ends bead rolled
-2.5" aluminum throttle body adaptere
-Silicone couplers
-Stainless Tbolt clamps
-Fits with factory airbox
-connects to factory turbo outlet pipe
-3/8npt IAT bung
-Your choice of any BOV flange
-$380 plus shippin
-$320 plus shipping if you don't need the hot side piping, for those of you that are using bottom firing turbos.


Intercoolers and piping kits are available separately.

I have no idea on shipping costs at this moment.

I don't have all my pictures at the moment, will update this week.

Please note that you DO NOT need to cut your bumper support in half like the pictures, similar trimming as the ETS intercooler is needed.










So, as it appears, ETS will no longer be producing an intercooler for the gvr4. As we know, this leaves very few options for a direct bolt in gvr4 specific intercooler. I am interested in providing something to the community, but I need help from you guys to come up with the criteria.

There is many ways to offer this intercooler, but I would like to not blatantly copy ETS' design, although it is a very simple design and I see no harm in it, they are a local business to me and a large part of the dsm community and I would like to do all I can to respect the time and effort they put into the kit.

That being said...how about we improve on their design and come up with the ultimate bolt in, reasonably priced kit available.

I would like to come up with the most modular setup possible. Meaning, as much of the kit as possible will be usable with BOTH maf and speed density setups, leaving only a couple parts to swap out in order to change setups. This is best for you because its cheaper to convert later and its good for me because it keeps costs down.

Let me know what you guys would like to see the most out of a fmic kit and what the price range should be. Cores can range anywhere from 80 bucks for a Chinese core to about 400 bucks for a nice Spearco core, this obviously drastically changes the cost of a kit.

My plan as of now is to build an intercooler that bolts on and requires only a small amount of trimming to the bumper support. A piping kit that clears all stock components like ac lines, stock air box, etc...

I can also offer intake tubes.

Here is how mine turned out, it is a large 4" core and required gobs of trimming to the bumper cover and removal completly of the support, but im ok with stuff like that. This dimension intercooler might work as a 3" core, but I wont know till I take some measurements.

Give me some ideas....












Heres a couple pictures from a member that bought the first kit and was very helpful in testing fitment! It looks great after he had it powedercoated!






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Edited by Mdlimy (02/08/17 09:15 AM)

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iceman69510
Turn Right Racing
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218232 posted 10/09/15 02:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I would also consider making a nice pipe kit for Evo 8/9 or 10 intercoolers. For a reasonable price that would be a great budget alternative.

I used an old RRE pipe kit with some additional piping to fit my Evo I/C on 855, and would consider adding one to 828 if available.



91 VR4 855 Nile Black
92 VR4 828 Belize Green-Daily driver status
91 VR4 115 Nile Black -SOLD

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turbowop
Hard Snarker
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218236 posted 10/09/15 03:13 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Those mounting ears won't allow fitment with a JDM bumper. I would suggest a different mounting solution to allow it to work with both USDM and JDM bumpers. Perhaps something from the top of the intercooler to the core support and bottom of the intercooler to the lower subframe. I think it's better to use the top and bottom anyway than to allow the weight of the intercooler to hang via the endtanks.

*edit* After rereading I realize that the pics were for your own personal setup. Either way, my suggestions are still useful, IMO.



-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051


Edited by turbowop (10/09/15 03:16 PM)

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EMX5636
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218238 posted 10/09/15 03:28 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I will second what Mark said. I usually prefer a couple tabs underneath, and one or two up top off the hood latch support etc. But that is a pretty setup you built. Good job potentially stepping up to fill the shoes of people who can't build their own and want a bolt-on, no hack solution.



91 #108/2000- link
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Mdlimy
Member
1137/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218243 posted 10/09/15 04:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting turbowop:

Those mounting ears won't allow fitment with a JDM bumper. I would suggest a different mounting solution to allow it to work with both USDM and JDM bumpers. Perhaps something from the top of the intercooler to the core support and bottom of the intercooler to the lower subframe. I think it's better to use the top and bottom anyway than to allow the weight of the intercooler to hang via the endtanks.

*edit* After rereading I realize that the pics were for your own personal setup. Either way, my suggestions are still useful, IMO.




This was one of the main things I would change, mounting will most likely be the same as the ets intercoolers unless the size difference does not allow for it. Still great input and exactly what I'm looking for!

I do plan on utilizing a baffle inside the inlet end tank similar to what treadstone offers. I feel this would give my intercoolers a substantial advantage over the rest and really improve cooling.

I have seen a few shootouts between eBay cores and quality cores but I always question the results. I feel like my cxracing core is a fairly decent piece for the price and given the option to spend an extra 300 dollars on a core I don't think I would. What's your guys opinion? Would you rather save 200-300 dollars and sacrifice a little bit of performance?

To be honest I don't think reliability and longevity of the cheap eBay core is an issue...but I don't have any facts to back that up, it's just my gut feeling judging by what I have seen.

I would like to do my own testing....



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Mdlimy
Member
1137/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218244 posted 10/09/15 04:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting iceman69510:

I would also consider making a nice pipe kit for Evo 8/9 or 10 intercoolers. For a reasonable price that would be a great budget alternative.

I used an old RRE pipe kit with some additional piping to fit my Evo I/C on 855, and would consider adding one to 828 if available.





Great idea! I think my buddy has an Evo fmic I could use, I'll see what I can do.
What would most people pay for a pipe kit that allowed the Evo fmic to bolt on?



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car_guy
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218291 posted 10/10/15 03:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Right now I'm on my stock MAF but I don't see the point of upgrading the intercooler without going to a larger MAF. Based on my tuners recommendations I am going with a GM MAF. I think there are 3 main BOV flanges but everything I've read says there are 1g style BOVs that will hold to 35 psi, so I'm fine with that. I suppose my preferred option would be a recircultated intake pipe with 1g style BOV and air filter in the factory locations so I don't have to relocate battery and a GM MAF up near the throttlebody elbow. I'm sure a 3.5" core would flow more than enough for 95% of us.

The simplest piping would probably be a GM MAF or SD with the intake pipe where the battery is and a non-recirculated BOV.

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car_guy
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218376 posted 10/12/15 02:31 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I was thinking about pricing for you. The VR Speed piping kit sells for $169 and I believe the ETS kit was $369. If you come in anywhere between there you should be fine. Neither of those included an intake pipe. It was intercooler piping only. I believe the intake pipe kit was an additional $269.

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CutlassJim
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912/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218377 posted 10/12/15 02:42 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting car_guy:

Right now I'm on my stock MAF but I don't see the point of upgrading the intercooler without going to a larger MAF. Based on my tuners recommendations I am going with a GM MAF. I think there are 3 main BOV flanges but everything I've read says there are 1g style BOVs that will hold to 35 psi, so I'm fine with that. I suppose my preferred option would be a recircultated intake pipe with 1g style BOV and air filter in the factory locations so I don't have to relocate battery and a GM MAF up near the throttlebody elbow. I'm sure a 3.5" core would flow more than enough for 95% of us.

The simplest piping would probably be a GM MAF or SD with the intake pipe where the battery is and a non-recirculated BOV.




Have fun tuning that shitball curve. And make sure to keep the screen in it.



ALL DSM's are advanced and ALL Evo's retarded
I love my crazy mother!!!

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thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218379 posted 10/12/15 02:53 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
How about one like this? My son got this with a 1g, and I got it from him. It will allow the use of stock piping and routing with just 2 adapters. Very stealth.








Thom
1991 GVR-4 1025/2000 (PTE 1200's, 16g, DSMLink v3, gm-maf, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's)

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car_guy
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218381 posted 10/12/15 03:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Here's a thread with some good pictures on the pipe routing: click here
After looking at the size of the filter that came with ETS factory location intake pipe, I'm thinking it might be worth it to relocate the battery to get a decent sized filter on there. Something like this would be great:



With a 4" intake pipe and a longer filter it would flow like crazy.
Could do a shorter filter for 2G MAF or longer filter for SD and GM MAF, similar to this setup:



This looks like a great setup for a GM MAF:



Intercooler might be a bit large to fit behind the bumper, but could work with something a little smaller:



Lots of great setups here: web page

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car_guy
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218383 posted 10/12/15 03:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting CutlassJim:

Quoting car_guy:

Right now I'm on my stock MAF but I don't see the point of upgrading the intercooler without going to a larger MAF. Based on my tuners recommendations I am going with a GM MAF. I think there are 3 main BOV flanges but everything I've read says there are 1g style BOVs that will hold to 35 psi, so I'm fine with that. I suppose my preferred option would be a recircultated intake pipe with 1g style BOV and air filter in the factory locations so I don't have to relocate battery and a GM MAF up near the throttlebody elbow. I'm sure a 3.5" core would flow more than enough for 95% of us.

The simplest piping would probably be a GM MAF or SD with the intake pipe where the battery is and a non-recirculated BOV.




Have fun tuning that shitball curve. And make sure to keep the screen in it.




Guys like Scott Laird and Hal Landry don't seem to have a problem tuning with the MAF there If it's ok for them I think it would work for me since Scott does my tuning. Where do you suggest placing the MAF?

Scott's setup, and he doesn't use a screen:



Hal's Setup:



Edited by car_guy (10/12/15 03:18 PM)

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Mdlimy
Member
1137/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218431 posted 10/13/15 08:58 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Incorporating a place for the MAF is not a big deal, the piping will likely be the same with just a section removed to allow two couplers and the maf.

Whether you want to use a draw through maf setup on the intake tube or a blow through on the intercooler pipe is up to you; I will not get into what is better but I will say you will have a harder time trying to find a tuner that is willing and/or capable of tuning a blow through maf compared to a standard draw through or speed density. That being said, I am happy to offer any setup you wish but I don't see many blow through setups being sold in the future.

Intakes can be done a few ways and sizes, not even sure where to start on this one, but I could make just about any setup needed.

Different blow off valve flanges are no problem, I can off any flange I can get my hands on. Location will need to be decided.
A recirc port on the intake tube can also be done, I don't see any issues there.

I think the biggest thing I need to figure out is what brand core to use. This will dictate the price of the kit greatly.

Who would choose a cheaper ebay core to save about $150-$200? For what its worth, i feel the quality of the ebay core that I used is quite good, but I cannot speak for the performance as I have not done any comparative testing.

Robbie



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pot
It's a twee shaker----choot him choot him
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218700 posted 10/17/15 10:06 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'm just curious to hear where your at with this and if you've received enough interest to begin designing a couple different options? I'm looking to finally upgrade my intercooler from the stock set up this winter. Any pictures, progress, or questions you have for the community would be beneficial for all. Thanks for your continued interest in this project Robbie and we all look forward to hearing from you.

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slugsgomoo
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218727 posted 10/18/15 04:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
for what it's worth, when I had my evo3 16g, I ran 1g DSM style short route piping simply by moving the radiator an inch or so over to the drivers side, and though it doesn't work with A/C (sad to say) short route piping is way better than the default galant route IMO.



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donniekak
Member ++


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218728 posted 10/18/15 04:30 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting CutlassJim:

Quoting car_guy:

Right now I'm on my stock MAF but I don't see the point of upgrading the intercooler without going to a larger MAF. Based on my tuners recommendations I am going with a GM MAF. I think there are 3 main BOV flanges but everything I've read says there are 1g style BOVs that will hold to 35 psi, so I'm fine with that. I suppose my preferred option would be a recircultated intake pipe with 1g style BOV and air filter in the factory locations so I don't have to relocate battery and a GM MAF up near the throttlebody elbow. I'm sure a 3.5" core would flow more than enough for 95% of us.

The simplest piping would probably be a GM MAF or SD with the intake pipe where the battery is and a non-recirculated BOV.




Have fun tuning that shitball curve. And make sure to keep the screen in it.



I run a gm maf on my car at 70lbs/min around 40psi. It works well enough to drive from 500ft above sea level to 8200ft, and from 10* to 120* with zero issues.

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Mdlimy
Member
1137/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218918 posted 10/20/15 10:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting pot:

I'm just curious to hear where your at with this and if you've received enough interest to begin designing a couple different options? I'm looking to finally upgrade my intercooler from the stock set up this winter. Any pictures, progress, or questions you have for the community would be beneficial for all. Thanks for your continued interest in this project Robbie and we all look forward to hearing from you.




I think I'm just going to go ahead and build a prototype using an ebay core. I am interested to know if people are willing to spend the extra money on a nicer core....

Ill figure out what size core and get it ordered and get going on it, hopefully have some results in a the next couple weeks.

Robbie



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Mdlimy
Member
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Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218979 posted 10/21/15 11:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Ok so I have narrowed down some options for cores. Its just up to you guys to help point me in the right direction. I have researched several good quality intercooler companies(bell, greddy, vibrant, treadstone etc...) and the only one that is good quality and still affordable is Treadstone. So I have posted links to the two size options I am looking at, along with a link to a Chinese cxracing core of slightly similar size(pretty much the only dimensions available from them for the 3.5" core)

For reference, the ETS core is 24 x 10 x 3 and requires cutting of the bumper support bar.


click
$241.50
This core is 3.5" X 10.5" X 24". I know that the width will work well as it is the same as mine. The 3.5" core will require 1/2" more cutting in both forward and up directions compared to the ETS.(not a big deal IMO)
This is pretty much the closest dimensions to the ETS intercooler while having the gains of a 3.5" core instead of the 3"


click
$210.00
This is a 3.5" X 8" X 22" core. There will be less surface area than the ETS core but still a 1/2" thicker core. It will also require LESS cutting than the ETS core, in fact it MIGHT not require any(don't quote me yet!) I am fairly certain this intercooler will still perform fairly close to the ETS core because of the increased core thickness. This would be a great option for people that don't want to cut much. In my opinion this would be great if NO cutting was required, but if you have to cut anything at all why not just go all out and remove a couple more inches for a bigger core?


click
$114.00
This is a 3.5" X 8" X 22" core also. Same brand as the one I am using. I see nothing terrible about this core, it looked to be decent quality and welded nice. But I do not have any data to compare it to the other quality cores...Plenty of people online have done the comparisons, but I would like to run some tests of my own eventually. The price difference is quite large. I don't see an issue with it holding up over time, there really isn't much to go wrong, most the time intercooler fail are on the end tanks....This core will most likely be a no go, just keeping the options open.


Prices really depend on how many people are interested but most likely just the intercooler will be the core price plus $200. So that means if I go with a quality Treadstone core I can have a bolt in intercooler available for under $450. If I have something like 10 people interested i could probably knock them out around $400.

The Pipe Kit is a whole different topic. So many different variations.

I think I will make all the hot side piping the same and then I can offer different "adapter" pipes that allow the same hotside piping to be used with different turbos.
I will do something similar for the cold side piping. SD can be one pipe right up to the elbow and Maf will be the same thing with a section removed for the maf. I plan to route the piping to clear the stock filter setup.
Any type of fitting or port can be welded to the pipes, I think I will make all of them with a 3/8" npt bung for an IAT, that way even if you are using MAF you can still use an iat for logging.
I might just stock several different style blow off flanges and weld them on custom to each order...1g, hks, tial, etc.... Is anyone interested in mounting on the intercooler like mine? I would not place in the same location, its too low, but maybe the cold side up top....

I will be making 3" throttle elbows which will be available separate from the kit.

Intake pipe...I would like to make a custom intake for people that dont have a relocated battery...maybe even a heat shield to go with it?
I can also make an intake pipe for those with relocated batteries like my self. These are fairly simple, and will most likely just use a large aem/k&n filter.

Thanks guys
Robbie



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Edited by Mdlimy (10/21/15 11:34 PM)

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car_guy
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218996 posted 10/22/15 10:04 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
My $.02

Those all look like great options!
The gearhead in me says that I really want an intercooler that flows 1000cfm, but the realist says that I will never need that much. I want to do it right the first time, and not have to worry about upgrading again if I get more horsepower. But am I realistically going to be over 510hp? Probably not. With that said, it leads me to believe the smaller cores are all I need. If it means an easier install by not having to cut into the bumper support then that's a bonus too.

Now the question is Treadstone or CXRacing. I personally have heard that the end tanks are where the problems are typically found on cheaper intercoolers. Since you are the one doing the end tanks then I don't see that being an issue with the cheaper core. The other issue with cheaper cores is the efficiency. This depends on the number of fins and rows in a given core. Since the number of rows looks to be the same then the only difference to look at would be the density of the fins. From some pictures I've found looking around the interwebs, the density on the fins in the Treadstone seems to be quite a bit higher than on the CXRacing. So while you might actually see more pressure drop across the Treadstone, it's because it is actually cooling better, so the efficiency of the Treadstone, i.e. temperature drop across the intercooler, should be better with the Treadstone. I don't believe the CXRacing is in danger of falling apart, but how much cooling are you really getting from it?

Again from the research I've done, some of which is linked in the thread below, the core thickness seems to be one of the biggest deciding factors on pressure drop, or resistance within the core. By going from a 3" (ETS) to 3.5" you're already helping that.
There are pictures of the 10" Treadstone core on a GVR4 here: click here

Given that the main reason I am upgrading my intercooler is to keep the air as cool as possible, I would prefer to have the Treadstone core for the higher density fins and therefore increased cooling ability.

So now if I'm going to spend the additional money on the Treadstone, why not just spend the extra $31.50 to go ahead and get the bigger intercooler???? So now I've gone full circle and I say I might as well get the 3.5" x 10.5" x 24" Treadstone. Final Answer!

On the piping, for me this is dependent on the price. If it's going to cost an extra $150-$200 for a factory location intake/filter, I can relocate the battery for less than that, so I would just go with a short intake. I love the idea of a heat shield! Heat is the enemy and the more cold air we can actually get the filter to pull in the better off we are. The shield would need to come as close to sealing to the hood as possible in order to isolate the filter. Would you include a port for the PCV breather line?

For the BOV, I would prefer to recirculate, So I wouldn't care whether it was on the intercooler or not as long as it could reach a hose back to the intake. I would think it would be easier for mass production to put it in a location that would work for both recirc. and atmosphere BOV.

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galantgti
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1221200 posted 12/02/15 01:01 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Any updates on this ?



1989 Galant GTi-16v White 145hp
1992 Galant GTi-16v Black 144hp RIP
1978 Buick Skyhawk 3.8 V6 110hp RIP
1997 Galant GLXi 136hp Green RIP
2000 Opel Omega 2.5 V6 Irmscher 208hp RWD
1991 Galant GTi-16v Dynamic 4 (4ws/4wd) 4g63T 220hp

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Mdlimy
Member
1137/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1221203 posted 12/02/15 02:08 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Been extremely busy and haven't had the time to make any progress. The biggest hurdle will be finding a stock gvr4 for me to build this all around. My personal car would not be a good candidate for this.



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galantgti
Junior Member


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1223090 posted 01/22/16 05:17 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Should be possible to find someone with an almost stock gvr4 to help you with this ?


I'm really interested



1989 Galant GTi-16v White 145hp
1992 Galant GTi-16v Black 144hp RIP
1978 Buick Skyhawk 3.8 V6 110hp RIP
1997 Galant GLXi 136hp Green RIP
2000 Opel Omega 2.5 V6 Irmscher 208hp RWD
1991 Galant GTi-16v Dynamic 4 (4ws/4wd) 4g63T 220hp

Posts: 90 | From: netherlands | Member Since: 06/19/15 | IP: (84.84.197.110) | Report this post to a Moderator

4g6Tree
Junior Member
77/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1223101 posted 01/22/16 09:43 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I would definitely buy it for that price, provided it'll fit a JDM bumper. It would be nice to have a bolt in kit made by a guy helping they community. ETS trying to get close to a grand for their kit never say right with me.



1992 VR4 #77
1992 AWD Talon TSi
1999 Trans Am

Posts: 44 | From: Salem, VA | Member Since: 07/07/14 | IP: (2600:1003:b865:9) | Report this post to a Moderator

jeverts
Member +
909/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1223110 posted 01/22/16 11:28 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I have a whole design of my intercooler if you really want I would be happy to give it too you. Granted its made from billet but you can the dimensions of it and go off of that.


Posts: 302 | From: Hartford, WI | Member Since: 07/14/11 | IP: (23.30.240.177) | Report this post to a Moderator

Mdlimy
Member
1137/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1223112 posted 01/22/16 01:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Alright guys, sounds like there are several people interested, I will make an effort to get something going here.

Jverts, I like this idea, it means I wont need to find a car to mock up on. Does your setup fit a 100% stock car? Can you give us some details on it?



1137 summit build thread
click

Posts: 111 | From: Gresham, oregon | Member Since: 04/30/15 | IP: (96.89.114.46) | Report this post to a Moderator


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