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So, attempted my first WOT pull...


thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235013 posted 01/31/17 06:39 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
While getting on the freeway I decided to try and get a WOT log in. The results were not what I expected. Once @ 4500rpm it fell flat on its face (felt like fuel cut), but the logs show over 60lbs boost??

2.0l (20 over)
8.5:1 compression
BC 272's
PTE 1200cc injectors (37 base pressure)
e316g, stock WG
gm-maf w/Tia Q 50mm BOV
Wally 255
Aeromotive AFPR
93 oct

First WOT attempt on the galant. Log shows I peaked over 60psi boost @ 4400ish RPM? Not sure what I am missing here. Needless to say, she fell flat on her face when that happened. It felt like fuel cut, but it never leaned out. Injectors even hit 88%. All things point to the fact that I did hit that boost, but I would think the e316g would blow into dust at that pressure.




Thom
1991 GVR-4 1025/2000 (PTE 1200's, 16g, DSMLink v3, gm-maf, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's)

Posts: 640 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Member Since: 09/24/14 | IP: (12.109.79.254) | Report this post to a Moderator

GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235014 posted 01/31/17 08:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
You'll need to post the entire log if you want help. You can host it anywhere and simply link to it here. Dropbox, or ant FFU site will work.

BoostEst is not actual boost. It's calculated boost based on the parameters the ECU sees. My guess would be your MAF compensation is way out of wack, and the ECU thinks you're moving way more air than you actually are. You'll need to add a MAP sensor if you want to log actual boost.

Also, I don't see a WBO2 being logged in your display. If you don't have one, I'd advise getting one before trying to dial in the tune any more.

Your target AFR displayed in your screenshot is 9.3:1. That's way too rich. You should be shooting closer to 11.0:1 on pump gas.

Post an actual log of a 3rd gear pull from ~2.5k to redline (with a WBO2 enabled) and I can provide some worthwhile feedback.



820/1000
1837/2000
1546/2000-SOLD
1813/2000-SOLD

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mitsuturbo
Banthony
555/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235016 posted 01/31/17 09:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Just in this screenshot i see some issues.
TPS is only showing 3.18V. Far from WOT, yet IDC is already 88% at only 4400rpm.
I don't think it's remotely possible that turbo is flowing 60lb/min at 4400rpm, either.
There's also knock just prior to your marker. Timing looks flat across that range. Could be rich knock.



92 GVR4 555/1000 11.41 @ 128.26mph
97 CBR900RR
2012 Hyundai Veloster

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thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235022 posted 01/31/17 09:29 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I am sure it is rich knock seeing how rich it is. I will have to readjust the TPS with link. Fortunately the knock is minimal and never kicked the CEL light or boost LEDs on, so it was fewer than 5 counts. I figure there would be plenty to adjust as it just has an IDLE and CRUISE tune on it. I have never tuned WOT before, so this was my first stab.



Thom
1991 GVR-4 1025/2000 (PTE 1200's, 16g, DSMLink v3, gm-maf, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's)

Posts: 640 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Member Since: 09/24/14 | IP: (12.109.79.254) | Report this post to a Moderator

highrpm666
Member
677/1000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235039 posted 01/31/17 09:57 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Re-adjust your TPS. Get your wideband logging. Get your target AFR correct. And then, make sure your plugs are good and re-gap them very tight, like .024-.026. Cover the basics. I just had a similar issue when I did my turbo swap a few weeks ago. Went from a big 16g to a bastard 20g, new fmic setup etc.. I was having bad spark blow out around 4500rpm. Everything looked great in link yet it felt like it was hitting a brick wall getting into boost. Ended up simply being that my plugs were over gapped. They were at about .032 even though I had previously gapped them to .028. Re-gapped them to .026 and the blow out went away completely. I'm not saying this is your issue but, its worth pulling the plugs and checking them at least. Good luck!

Posts: 117 | From: Morrison, Co | Member Since: 02/19/14 | IP: (24.8.26.162) | Report this post to a Moderator

thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235069 posted 02/02/17 08:26 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I disabled the ecmlink TPS adjustments and set it up to get the proper voltages. I connected up the AEM UEGO (easy) to the ECU, but had to spend some time setting the voltages up correctly so it will the same in link as it does on the gauge, that was a pain and I may be off a few 10ths, but it is very close. I can see why they like the Innovative WB's, but I dislike messing around with the free-air calibrations all the time.

Now just to mess around with wbfactor and the OpenLoopmaxOct table and set the AFR accordingly and try some more pulls. I am assuming I should pump up the base fuel pressure to 43 as recommended first and reset my base and cruise tune first though.


Edited by thomcasey (02/02/17 08:46 AM)

Posts: 640 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Member Since: 09/24/14 | IP: (12.109.79.254) | Report this post to a Moderator

thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235843 posted 03/14/17 01:24 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Got everything set (supposedly) and tried a pull. I am thinking my WB is either reading waaaayyy wrong or something else is going on. Seems my TPS voltage dropped during the pull even though I didn't let up till over 6K. Here is a link to the full log.

3-07-17 2nd and 3rd pull

I am ordering an LC-2 this week as the AEM seems very suspect plus it is so slow to respond in ECMLink.



Thom
1991 GVR-4 1025/2000 (PTE 1200's, 16g, DSMLink v3, gm-maf, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's)

Posts: 640 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Member Since: 09/24/14 | IP: (12.109.79.254) | Report this post to a Moderator

FlyingEagle
Doesn't Match Anything


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235854 posted 03/14/17 03:07 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Do you have a narrow band 02 sensor and wideband in use?

Reason I say this, the simulated narrow band output function with an Innovate MTX-L, is quite slow in its response curve.
In other words, you see long but consistent ups and down, basically hanging there longer than you would expect a narrow band to do.
Part of the downside of using simulated and the engine response that comes along with it.
Maybe this is strictly because of it's inherent ability to swing such a large area, but not hover as well in a specific spot like 14.7:1.
I have my narrow band back in the system, but am waiting to rearrange things to suit this with the ECU.



C53A 1 of the ~1500

Posts: 1494 | From: THE Ottawa | Member Since: 03/05/05 | IP: (173.206.108.86) | Report this post to a Moderator

GSTwithPSI
A hole
820/1000
1837/2000



Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235866 posted 03/14/17 09:11 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Man, you got balls. You're getting 10+ degrees of knock retard at the top of each gear and staying in it. That's bad. Real bad. Your knock threshold is set to 8*. I'd considering lowering that to at least 4* or less. You should get in the habit of aborting the pull if you're seeing 4* of knock, and certainly 10*, or that thing may not last very long.

Without a functioning WBO2, I won't be able to give much feedback on your MAF adjustment. However, even without an accurate WB reading, I can tell you your MAF comp table is completely jacked. You have a HUGE jump in two separate places in the table. You'll never get consistent fuel delivery with that table as-is. You need to smooth out your table. As a general rule, if you're flexing +/- ~5% from cell to cell, you've probably got an underlying issue.

Also, you've pulled fuel using the fuel tab in the ECU config. You should only use the fuel/timing tables in the ECU config for adding fuel or timing temporarily, for example, between pulls. Any changes made to either of these tabs should immediately be made permanently to the fuel/timing DA tables, and the ECU fuel/timing tables should be zeroed out.

After you get your new WB installed, and your TPS issue sorted, zero out your MAF comp table completely and do another 3rd gear pull. It should be fairly easy to dial in the MAF at that point with a fresh log.

Lastly, pull some timing out of your DA table from 4k up. It's configured way too hot (24* peak ). I'd bet that's significantly contributing to your knock issue.

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thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235873 posted 03/15/17 07:02 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It is actually a AEM WB. I have the stock O2 sensor in the stock location. The AEM is very sensitive and responsive on the gauge, but slow to report in DSMLink (which is why the recommend Innovative and why I am moving to one). They (AEm) are a pain to setup with link because you have to screw around with the voltages to get it to line up between the gauge and what link sees.

Quoting FlyingEagle:

Do you have a narrow band 02 sensor and wideband in use?

Reason I say this, the simulated narrow band output function with an Innovate MTX-L, is quite slow in its response curve.
In other words, you see long but consistent ups and down, basically hanging there longer than you would expect a narrow band to do.
Part of the downside of using simulated and the engine response that comes along with it.
Maybe this is strictly because of it's inherent ability to swing such a large area, but not hover as well in a specific spot like 14.7:1.
I have my narrow band back in the system, but am waiting to rearrange things to suit this with the ECU.





Thom
1991 GVR-4 1025/2000 (PTE 1200's, 16g, DSMLink v3, gm-maf, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's)

Posts: 640 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Member Since: 09/24/14 | IP: (12.109.79.254) | Report this post to a Moderator

thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235875 posted 03/15/17 07:39 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting GSTwithPSI:

Man, you got balls. You're getting 10+ degrees of knock retard at the top of each gear and staying in it. That's bad. Real bad. Your knock threshold is set to 8*. I'd considering lowering that to at least 4* or less. You should get in the habit of aborting the pull if you're seeing 4* of knock, and certainly 10*, or that thing may not last very long.



Unfortunately I didn't notice the CEL coming on regarding knock till that point (I was by myself and ran into a rough spot on the road, bad timing on my part). I truly have no desire to blow this thing up nor do I have the balls to stay in it purposely, that is for sure. I shouldprobably adjust the MBC also, 30PSI is more than I plan on running on my E316g. 20-23 lbs well tuned will be plenty for me.

Quoting GSTwithPSI:

Without a functioning WBO2, I won't be able to give much feedback on your MAF adjustment. However, even without an accurate WB reading, I can tell you your MAF comp table is completely jacked. You have a HUGE jump in two separate places in the table. You'll never get consistent fuel delivery with that table as-is. You need to smooth out your table. As a general rule, if you're flexing +/- ~5% from cell to cell, you've probably got an underlying issue.



I used MAFCompAdjust to get those settings. This is what the software was suggesting it be set at when doing idle/cruise tuning. I thought it looked really jacked up, but that is what the software was suggesting I set it too. Might look at a different MAF to see if there may be any issues with the one I am using currently (After smoothing it out, of course)

Quoting GSTwithPSI:

Also, you've pulled fuel using the fuel tab in the ECU config. You should only use the fuel/timing tables in the ECU config for adding fuel or timing temporarily, for example, between pulls. Any changes made to either of these tabs should immediately be made permanently to the fuel/timing DA tables, and the ECU fuel/timing tables should be zeroed out.



I will zero these out. I don't remember setting them, but they may have been that way from when I sent in my v2 to be upgraded to V3 and they transferred the setting over.

Quoting GSTwithPSI:

After you get your new WB installed, and your TPS issue sorted, zero out your MAF comp table completely and do another 3rd gear pull. It should be fairly easy to dial in the MAF at that point with a fresh log.



I will get on this. It is our 30th Wedding anniversary in 11 days, so I deserve a gift of a new wideband!!! I will also check my voltages to see if I am having a alternator issue or not. (Probably doing the pull at night, with the heater on and stereo on (volume down but deck and amp still on). Will have to see how a daytime pull with everything off goes, once I get things fixed.

Quoting GSTwithPSI:

Lastly, pull some timing out of your DA table from 4k up. It's configured way too hot (24* peak ). I'd bet that's significantly contributing to your knock issue.



Absolutely. I will read up on the adjustments for this so I do it right.

I appreciate the help and honesty. Never beat around the bush. I have a thick skin!!

Posts: 640 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Member Since: 09/24/14 | IP: (12.109.79.254) | Report this post to a Moderator

FlyingEagle
Doesn't Match Anything


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235880 posted 03/15/17 11:21 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Loading a 2G tune into the maps, is a good place to start. I am running one of those now, and it helps to a degree ... mostly with degrees up top and makes it easier to tune from the bottom of your power range, and then move forward to get more out of it.

What map are you on again? 1G stock?



C53A 1 of the ~1500

Posts: 1494 | From: THE Ottawa | Member Since: 03/05/05 | IP: (173.206.108.86) | Report this post to a Moderator

thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235882 posted 03/15/17 02:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yes



Thom
1991 GVR-4 1025/2000 (PTE 1200's, 16g, DSMLink v3, gm-maf, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's)

Posts: 640 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Member Since: 09/24/14 | IP: (2601:803:c403:26) | Report this post to a Moderator

thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235889 posted 03/15/17 05:12 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I loaded the stock 2g timing and fuel maps, then zeroed out the fuel and MAF sliders. Hopefully I can get a pull in on Saturday.



Thom
1991 GVR-4 1025/2000 (PTE 1200's, 16g, DSMLink v3, gm-maf, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's)

Posts: 640 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Member Since: 09/24/14 | IP: (68.45.230.24) | Report this post to a Moderator

thomcasey
I ain't no puny human
1025/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1236200 posted 03/30/17 08:13 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
I got the LC-2 and installed it. I went with ECMLink's recommendation of installing it in the factory O2 location and set up link to simulate the narrow band. Now I see where everyone has a square wave for their logs of the factory O2 and mine were all jagged at the top of the voltage rise. She purrs like a kitten (ok, a cammed kitten). Now to get some pulls in this weekend.



Thom
1991 GVR-4 1025/2000 (PTE 1200's, 16g, DSMLink v3, gm-maf, eagle/ross, .020 over, 272's)

Posts: 640 | From: Indianapolis, IN | Member Since: 09/24/14 | IP: (12.109.79.254) | Report this post to a Moderator


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