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trans work necessary for 450hp

tektic
Senior Member


 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218950 posted 10/21/15 03:02 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
So I have a 93 awd dsm trans and was thinking about the evo 3 gear set. Would that be enough to handle 450 with my current soutbend clutch. Might need the spider gear upgrade too right?
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donniekak
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218953 posted 10/21/15 03:10 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
With a 93 any of the small 3-4 hub/slider gears will be an upgrade. You should already have a double synchro second. A 4-spider with an aftermarket cross shaft, or welded diff would be a good idea if you launch the car.
Posts: 736 | From: surprise az | Member Since: 01/01/09 | IP: (97.124.17.161) | Report this post to a Moderator

89Patches
I <3 AMS


 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218956 posted 10/21/15 03:51 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If you do a refresh Bearings/synchros and shim it tighter and upgrade the center diff I see no problem holding 450whp. Although that's assuming the gear set you have is in good shape.
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donniekak
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218959 posted 10/21/15 05:09 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
The 1993-1999 large synchro 3-4 hub/slider explodes at that power level.
Posts: 736 | From: surprise az | Member Since: 01/01/09 | IP: (97.124.17.161) | Report this post to a Moderator

pot
It's a twee shaker----choot him choot him
182/1000


 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218961 posted 10/21/15 06:06 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I'd like to add if your considering upgrading to any of the Evo III gears start your shopping now. They are getting really hard to find. I spoke to Josh at JNZ and they are NLA.
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turbofonz
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218973 posted 10/21/15 09:19 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Driving style, clutch setup and fluid are also very important for power handling.


Ryan W.
91 TSi AWD - 9 sec stock bottom end and corn fed
91 Galant VR-4 - Summit White - 153/2000
91 Galant VR-4 - Summit White - 490/2000
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EMX5636
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1218974 posted 10/21/15 09:32 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
In my opinion, Evo 3 gears aren't really any stronger in real life. Donnie has it right though, late 92-up second gear, 91-early 92 3/4 setup, fresh bearings and a good shim job will hold you over. 4-spider or Welded definitely if you will be launching/rowing through gears.


91 #108/2000- link
97 Kawi ZX7R Street/Track
03 Kawi KLX400R Supermoto
01 GMC Sierra C3 AWD
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car_guy
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219045 posted 10/23/15 08:45 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
How many people on here have done the rebuild themselves, and how difficult would you say it is? I read the Vfaq and it doesn't seem that hard. Don't really need any special tools, just a press. Also, where is the best place to get all the upgraded parts you guys are talking about, double synchro 2nd, 4 spider gear upgrade, evo 3 gear set (or at least 5th)?
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prove_it
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219046 posted 10/23/15 08:57 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Good question now in days.

As for a good trans that will hold power, don't forget how critical the clutch is for keeping a trans in one piece. A bad or poorly operating clutch will kill syncros and gears.


#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

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EMX5636
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219050 posted 10/23/15 10:21 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting car_guy:

How many people on here have done the rebuild themselves, and how difficult would you say it is? I read the Vfaq and it doesn't seem that hard. Don't really need any special tools, just a press. Also, where is the best place to get all the upgraded parts you guys are talking about, double synchro 2nd, 4 spider gear upgrade, evo 3 gear set (or at least 5th)?



You also need to shim the gear stacks, using feeler gauges, solder method, etc. As far as gears and such, JNZ Tuning has everything you need except for the Evo3 stuff. It's all been discontinued, and you will definitely have to do some digging for used stuff, or absolute trenching for NOS (new original stock) last I checked.

Also, Prove_it also hit a nail on the head. You will wear out synchros if the clutch isn't disengaging properly. And torque rating will come into play as well. I love my twin, but it's not for everyone. I know a lot of guy that still get by with a street or 6-puck disk, and a heavy single plate up to 550-600whp. Just need to properly set it up. Also as a side note, I recommend against a sprung hub, when using a puck style clutch. The aggressive engagement tends to wear the springs and the center hub out fairly quickly.


91 #108/2000- link
97 Kawi ZX7R Street/Track
03 Kawi KLX400R Supermoto
01 GMC Sierra C3 AWD
05 CTS-V Stealth Grey

Edited by EMX5636 (10/23/15 10:24 AM)
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diambo4life
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1219053 posted 10/23/15 11:53 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting turbofonz:

Driving style, clutch setup and fluid are also very important for power handling.




This. I would have to say in my years of dsm driving, I have only broken one shift fork, never broken a hub and slider, broken several center diffs and what I mostly do is pull the gears off of third. I also normally run stock trannies. I use Lucas in the GVR4, my old Talon used mostly Valvoline.


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91 Talon: [email protected] (quickest) [email protected] (fastest) 3200lbs, 17" street tires in 2009 (sold.)
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tektic
Senior Member


 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235185 posted 02/07/17 07:51 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I have my rebuilt trans and have a 4 spider diff on the way. I'm going to need to shim everything.

When checking the shaft and center diff pre-load the races should pop right out of the flat center case piece? I didn't try to get them out yet. The solder goes between that case and the race right? Where do the shims go?
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iceman69510
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235190 posted 02/07/17 08:53 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Yes that is where you put the solder, and the shims go in the same location.


91 VR4 855 Nile Black
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tektic
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235222 posted 02/08/17 04:56 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Figured. OK thanks for the confirmation!
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diambo4life
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235265 posted 02/13/17 12:04 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
They all break....lol.


1991 Belize Green GVR4 #476/2000: [email protected] (best [email protected]) full street trim!
91 Talon: [email protected] (quickest) [email protected] (fastest) 3200lbs, 17" street tires in 2009 (sold.)
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slugsgomoo
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235318 posted 02/14/17 10:27 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting diambo4life:

They all break....lol.



The only solution is the most difficult... drivermod.

I've got my stock gearbox (worn syncros, gvr4 first gear) and I'm making... I'd say more than 450... It hasn't died yet I don't launch the car in first, but otherwise I'm not terribly kind to it.


-andrew
{witty signature}
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donniekak
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235328 posted 02/15/17 09:33 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
It's highway pulls that end up killing them.
Posts: 736 | From: surprise az | Member Since: 01/01/09 | IP: (2600:387:8:10::7) | Report this post to a Moderator

tektic
Senior Member


 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235332 posted 02/15/17 11:47 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
I definitely loosened up my last trans downshifting to 4th at around 75 and adding 25# of boost.
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slugsgomoo
god hates stupid people
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235382 posted 02/17/17 02:33 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting donniekak:

It's highway pulls that end up killing them.



well 4th gear is weak, and without a trans cooler, I would definitely forecast bad things there. The truth is, 1st gear, center diff, and 4th are probably the three worst things in the stock gearbox... avoid them


-andrew
{witty signature}
#461 Kensington Grey - 2.0L/T67/etc
2015 Triumph Tiger 800 XCx
2014 Ford Focus ST
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idreamidrive
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235384 posted 02/17/17 03:16 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Is there a way of attaching a trans cooler?
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turbofonz
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235388 posted 02/17/17 05:26 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Quoting slugsgomoo:

well 4th gear is weak, and without a trans cooler, I would definitely forecast bad things there. The truth is, 1st gear, center diff, and 4th are probably the three worst things in the stock gearbox... avoid them



3rd gear rolls are what I avoid. 4th gear pull is just asking for it. Look at how small any gear on the trans is, then ask it to hold 400+ ft/lbs of torque, with absolute traction, and heavy load. They don't last. You have to change your driving style and what you do and don't do if you want your gearset to last at higher power.


Ryan W.
91 TSi AWD - 9 sec stock bottom end and corn fed
91 Galant VR-4 - Summit White - 153/2000
91 Galant VR-4 - Summit White - 490/2000
91 Galant VR-4 - Nile Black - 369/2000
92 Galant VR-4 - Summit White - 255/1000 - [email protected] - sold
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G
obsessed with the turds of others
486/1000


 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235390 posted 02/17/17 06:43 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
OP, don't you have to make 450hp first?


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Posts: 8792 | From: zompton | Member Since: 02/24/04 | IP: (75.86.151.204) | Report this post to a Moderator

89Patches
I <3 AMS


 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235392 posted 02/17/17 09:25 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
If he has a 16G it's easy. Well after some very thought out calculations, ain't that right G?


Edited by 89Patches (02/17/17 09:26 PM)
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G
obsessed with the turds of others
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235396 posted 02/17/17 11:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Hell naw it ain't easy, maybe in canadalandia


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turbowop
Hard Snarker
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 Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1235398 posted 02/18/17 02:21 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
My car makes 450whp. My TMZ/Southbend clutch and ER built trans seem to hold it all just fine.

DSM 1st, double cone 2nd, Evo3 double cone 3rd-4th, welded center diff, heavy duty shift rails, etc. Neo RHD fluid.


-Mark

A face only a grocery shopper could love.
1051


Edited by turbowop (02/18/17 02:22 PM)
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