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Manual Trans rebuild info and bearing specs


prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
715/1000
1284/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1202045 posted 02/19/15 08:50 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Thought I'd post up a bunch of specs and info on rebuilding the manual trans. Be nice to have all the recommended clearances and as many part numbers as possible to help makes things easier and quicker to reference. All info comes from various dsm gurus and copied posts from the tooners, dsmtalk, and ecmlink forums. I plan on adding to this as I come across relevant info.


Tranny Shim Specs:

The following is for W5M33 AWD 5-speed DSM transmissions:

Ok, stock specs are:

The Preload Setting is listed in SAE (inches):

Input Shaft --> 0.000" - 0.002" ENDPLAY
Intermediate Shaft --> 0.003" - 0.005" PRELOAD
Center Differential --> 0.003" - 0.005" PRELOAD
Output Shaft --> 0.003" - 0.005" PRELOAD
Front Differential --> 0.002" - .0067" ENDPLAY

These are what I normally use:

Stock/Street Transmissions with less than 400TQ at the crank:

Input Shaft --> 0.004" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Intermediate Shaft --> 0.005" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Center Differential --> 0.005" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Output Shaft --> 0.003" - 0.005" PRELOAD
Front Differential --> 0.002" - .0067" ENDPLAY

Street/Strip Transmissions with less than 600TQ at the crank:

Input Shaft --> 0.005" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Intermediate Shaft --> 0.007" - 0.009" PRELOAD
Center Differential --> 0.005" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Output Shaft --> 0.003" - 0.005" PRELOAD
Front Differential --> 0.002" - .0067" ENDPLAY

All out RACE Transmissions that are Rebuilt/Inspected regularly with more than 600TQ at the crank:

Input Shaft --> 0.007" PRELOAD
Intermediate Shaft --> 0.008" - 0.010" PRELOAD
Center Differential --> 0.005" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Output Shaft --> 0.004" - 0.006" PRELOAD
Front Differential --> 0.002" - .0067" ENDPLAY

For Extremely HIGH HP/TQ transmissions (As in ~900-1000+TQ at the crank):

Input Shaft --> 0.007" PRELOAD
Intermediate Shaft --> 0.010" - 0.012" PRELOAD
Center Differential --> 0.005" - 0.007" PRELOAD
Output Shaft --> 0.004" - 0.006" PRELOAD
Front Differential --> 0.002" - .0067" ENDPLAY

From Tim Zimmer:

For the higher HP numbers, I would run a higher preload. Personally on mine, (AWD), I am running FWD style tapered roller bearings with 0.010" preload on my front diff.

If someone is looking at this thread for preload/endplay information for an AWD front differential utilizing standard roller bearings NOT tapered roller bearings, you must use ENDPLAY on the bearings to prevent thrust loading the bearings. Use a range of 0.000"-0.005" ENDPLAY on AWD front differentials. OEM spec is 0.003"-0.005".

For reference, FWD transmissions get bearing preload on ALL shafts, no matter what the OEM manual tells you. All shafts use tapered roller bearings, so preload ANY tapered roller bearing.

For reference, AWD transmissions get bearing preload on the input shaft, intermediate shaft, output shaft and center differential while having endplay on the front differential, no matter what the OEM manual tells you about putting endplay on the input shaft. We preload the input shaft as high as 0.007-0.012", and the intermediate shaft in the 0.009-0.015" range.

The more preload on the input shaft, the better ability it will give you in slowing the transmission down to shift better at higher rpm and putting less stress on the synchro and the clutch assembly.

The more preload on the intermediate shaft, the better ability it will have in reducing thrust-loading and pushing away the shaft from the input shaft resulting in improper gear mesh and risk of gear tooth/shaft failure.

The more heat in the transmission, the more the case will thermally expand, reducing preload on the shafts. If the transmission is in a high-temperature environment, adding a transmission cooler will help, and higher preloads are recommended to help the transmission shift good at 200+ degrees.

The solder trick is an easy way of finding out the gap between the bearing race and the case. Remove the bearing race and old shim, then place the bearing race on top of the differential bearing, then use some lube or grease to hold the solder in place. Use 0.062" diameter electrical rosin core solder and cut two pieces approximately 1/2" to 3/4" long and gently bend them into a curve matching the bearing race curvature and place these two pieces evenly spaced across from each other on top of the bearing race. Then, reinstall the case section and torque the bolts down to 29 ft/lbs.

Remove case bolts, remove case section, and you should have two evenly flat pieces that you can take measurement from to get the bearing preload for your FWD transmission.

Using either an accurate digital caliper or a micrometer, measure the thickness of the two pieces of solder. They should be close in thickness. If they are unevenly squished or way off in thickness, redo until you get evenly squished/close thickness measurements. Once you have two decent thicknesses, add the two thicknesses together and divide by two to get an average thickness. This number will be your "zero" preload/endplay value. To add preload, you will add around .007" to your calculated number to get a preload of .007" on your FWD front differential tapered roller bearings.

SHIMS
Part Description Part Number ID Number Thickness (in)
Shim - Input Shaft MD727661 80 0.0315
Shim - Input Shaft MD720937 83 0.0327
Shim - Input Shaft MD720938 86 0.0338
Shim - Input Shaft MD720939 89 0.0350
Shim - Input Shaft MD720940 92 0.0362
Shim - Input Shaft MD720941 95 0.0374
Shim - Input Shaft MD720942 98 0.0386
Shim - Input Shaft MD720943 1 0.0398
Shim - Input Shaft MD720944 4 0.0409
Shim - Input Shaft MD720945 7 0.0421
Shim - Input Shaft MD710454 J 0.0433
Shim - Input Shaft MD700270 D 0.0445
Shim - Input Shaft MD710455 K 0.0457
Shim - Input Shaft MD710456 L 0.0468
Shim - Input Shaft MD700271 G 0.0480
Shim - Input Shaft MD710457 M 0.0492
Shim - Input Shaft MD710458 N 0.0504
Shim - Input Shaft MD706574 E 0.0561
Shim - Input Shaft MD710459 O 0.0527
Shim - Input Shaft MD710460 P 0.0539
Shim - Input Shaft MD706573 - 0.0551
Shim - Input Shaft MD710461 Q 0.0563
Shim - Input Shaft MD710462 R 0.0575

Part Description Part Number ID Number Thickness (in)
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720948 80 0.0315
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720949 83 0.0327
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720950 86 0.0338
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720951 89 0.0350
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720952 92 0.0362
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720953 95 0.0374
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720954 98 0.0386
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720955 1 0.0398
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720956 4 0.0409
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720957 7 0.0421
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720958 10 0.0433
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720595 13 0.0445
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720960 16 0.0457
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720961 19 0.0468
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD720962 22 0.0480
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD712346 25 0.0492
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD712347 28 0.0504
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD712348 31 0.0516
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD712349 34 0.0527
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD712329 37 0.0539
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD712330 40 0.0551
Shim - Intermediate Shaft MD712331 43 0.0563

Part Description Part Number ID Number Thickness (in)
Shim - Center Differential MD736928 13 0.0445
Shim - Center Differential MD736929 16 0.0457
Shim - Center Differential MD736751 19 0.0468
Shim - Center Differential MD736931 22 0.0480
Shim - Center Differential MD726166 25 0.0492
Shim - Center Differential MD718517 28 0.0504
Shim - Center Differential MD718518 31 0.0516
Shim - Center Differential MD718519 34 0.0527
Shim - Center Differential MD718520 37 0.0539
Shim - Center Differential MD718521 40 0.0551
Shim - Center Differential MD718522 43 0.0563
Shim - Center Differential MD718523 46 0.0575
Shim - Center Differential MD718524 49 0.0587
Shim - Center Differential MD718525 52 0.0598
Shim - Center Differential MD718526 55 0.0610
Shim - Center Differential MD718527 58 0.0622
Shim - Center Differential MD718528 61 0.0634
Shim - Center Differential MD718529 64 0.0646
Shim - Center Differential MD718530 67 0.0657
Shim - Center Differential MD718531 70 0.0669
Shim - Center Differential MD721959 73 0.0681
Shim - Center Differential MD721960 76 0.0692
Shim - Center Differential MD721961 79 0.0705

Part Description Part Number ID Number Thickness (in)
Shim - Output Shaft MD726167 28 0.0504
Shim - Output Shaft MD726168 31 0.0516
Shim - Output Shaft MD726169 34 0.0527
Shim - Output Shaft MD724326 37 0.0539
Shim - Output Shaft MD724327 40 0.0551
Shim - Output Shaft MD724328 43 0.0563
Shim - Output Shaft MD724329 46 0.0575
Shim - Output Shaft MD724330 49 0.0587
Shim - Output Shaft MD724331 52 0.0598
Shim - Output Shaft MD724332 55 0.0610
Shim - Output Shaft MD724333 58 0.0622
Shim - Output Shaft MD724334 61 0.0634
Shim - Output Shaft MD724335 64 0.0646
Shim - Output Shaft MD724336 67 0.0657
Shim - Output Shaft MD724337 70 0.0669
Shim - Output Shaft MD724338 73 0.0681
Shim - Output Shaft MD724339 76 0.0692
Shim - Output Shaft MD724340 79 0.0705
Shim - Output Shaft MD724341 82 0.0716
Shim - Output Shaft MD724342 85 0.0728
Shim - Output Shaft MD724343 88 0.0740
Shim - Output Shaft MD724344 91 0.0751

Part Description Part Number ID Number Thickness (in)
Shim - Front Differential MD727658 56 0.0220
Shim - Front Differential MD727659 65 0.0256
Shim - Front Differential MD727660 74 0.0291
Shim - Front Differential MD720937 83 0.0327
Shim - Front Differential MD720940 92 0.0362
Shim - Front Differential MD720943 01 0.0398
Shim - Front Differential MD710454 J 0.0433
Shim - Front Differential MD710456 L 0.0468
Shim - Front Differential MD710458 N 0.0504
Shim - Front Differential MD710460 P 0.0539




#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy


Edited by prove_it (02/19/15 09:42 AM)

Posts: 4201 | From: Sioux Falls, SD | Member Since: 07/04/08 | IP: (24.230.93.110) | Report this post to a Moderator

prove_it
my racist jokes aren't actually funny
715/1000
1284/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1202050 posted 02/19/15 09:48 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
1G Manual Transmission Parts
-----------------------------------------------------------------
MD741558 3-4 shift fork
MB599879 clutch lever - cabin
MD173425 6 bolt AWD Flywheel
MD302074 Manual Transmission flywheel bolt
MD731948 Big Trans Staked Locking Nuts
MF241251 Pressure Plate bolts
MB484624 1990 AWD shifter cables


93-94 Transmission Parts
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Input Shaft Parts
5th Gear Roller Bearing: MD719137
3rd / 4th Gear Synchro Key: MD742445
3rd Gear Synchro: MD745479
4th Gear Synchro: MD745479
5th Gear Synchro Key: MD742441
5th Gear Synchro: MD744782
Input Shaft Rev Brake: MD746439
Outer Tapered Bearing: MD726235
Intermediate Shaft Parts
Intermediate Shaft: MD738952
5th Gear: MD742581
Lower Tapered Bearing: MD726236
Upper Tapered Bearing: MD736638
1st / 2nd Gear Synchro Key: MD742445
1st Gear Sychro: MD745477
2nd Gear Synchro (double): MD746435
Misc
32 mm nuts: MD731948

91-92 Transmission Parts
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Input Shaft Parts
3rd Gear Synchro: MD741198
4th Gear Synchro: MD741198
4th & 5th Syncho Key: MD742441
5th Gear Synchro: MD742541
Input Shaft Rev Brake: MD742051
5th and Rev Brake Key: MD742441
Outer Taper Bearing: MD726235

Intermediate Shaft Parts
------------------------------------------------------------------
Intermediate Shaft: MD738952
1st Gear Synchro: MD741644
2nd Gear Synchro: MD741645
1st & 2nd Synchro Key: MD742445
Inner Tapered Bearing: MD726236
Outer Tapered Bearing: MD736638
5th Gear: MD742581
Misc
Filter: MD738053
Wave Spring: MD744342


Center Differential Parts (AWD M/T)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MD738735 center diff housing
MD725878 center diff spider/side cross
MD737658 center diff washers (2 reqd)
MD733338 center diff spider and side gear kit
MD727551 center diff gear
MD727552 center diff gear bolt (8 reqd)
MD728248 center diff viscous coupler



#1284/2K NB, Totaled
#715/1K KG, Rebuilding
02 Acura TL daily duty unit

12yr+ Vr4 owner.
Honda/Acura master tech.
Family Guy

Posts: 4201 | From: Sioux Falls, SD | Member Since: 07/04/08 | IP: (24.230.93.110) | Report this post to a Moderator

EHmotorsports
Capt Fabbin Stabbin
1865/2000


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1202051 posted 02/19/15 09:59 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Here is a link to all the info I have gathered from various sites. click



click

Posts: 1265 | From: Beaverton | Member Since: 09/26/12 | IP: (98.246.179.90) | Report this post to a Moderator

tsitalon1
Member +


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1202748 posted 02/26/15 10:48 AM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post      
Golden info - Thank you so much guys!!!

As a long time DSM guy, I have forgotten more than I care to admit....

I have a $60 pull-a-part tranny in my GVR4 now and plan to go through it this summer, finances permitting.

Has anyone captured required parts list when trying to build the "ultimate ratio" tranny?

My 1st is ridiculously short

Posts: 305 | From: Montgomery Al | Member Since: 12/29/10 | IP: (158.15.255.228) | Report this post to a Moderator

cheekychimp Galant VR4.org Moderator
Director of Housing and Urban Development, and carbon/kevlar balls


Galant VR-4 org Post #: 1202822 posted 02/26/15 10:48 PM     Remind Me!  Send Private Message   Edit Post   
Opinions are always going to vary on the "ultimate" ratio, and in addition your own view will likely change depending upon your application.

I have a rare "unicorn" 4.3 final ratio transmission from an ex-rally car that is an absolute blast to drive. 1st through 4th are short ratio but 5th gear doesn't appear any shorter than stock given that my rpm at given speeds match what I routinely saw on 3.545 and 3.909 ratio transmissions. Logically however this must be achieved by a different combination of ratios. It is superb around town, on twisty back roads and especially on hill climbs.

At some point it will also need a rebuild. 5th to 4th down changes grind if performed quickly, so it has to be babied a bit. When I eventually get round to that I will give what information I can on the guts. I've been putting it off because the box is matched to the rear end (obviously) and we have absolutely no idea what is inside. The box will have to be removed, opened and examined with a view to identifying parts, then most likely the parts will need to be ordered (another 2-4 week wait at best assuming no unicorn parts are involved). Either it goes back together whilst we wait for parts or it is off the road for 6 weeks minimum.

For drag racing I do know that a GGSX and JDM 3.909 ratio hybrid box actually produces ratios that are almost identical to Magnus' Dogmission trans. However it is most likely far weaker and may not stand up to any genuine drag strip abuse. I always thought it would be a cool 'highway' transmission but I also like having a rear LSD and the GGSX ring and pinion doesn't fit over a standard EVO III/VR4 rear diff. For drag racing that's probably not an issue but you are still back to the strength problem.

Regarding ratios in general, there are two files (Excel I think) that you might find useful. One is a conversion application that allows you to input various primary and secondary ratios to obtain top speeds in various gears, the other is just a table that gives you the final ratio and corresponding speeds in each gear for various combinations of VR4, DSM and GGSX transmission parts. Because of the Excel format it is difficult to post the tables in their native format here, however, if you are interested, shoot me a PM (with your email) and I can send them to you.



Getting old sucks ... but it sure beats the alternative !!!


Edited by cheekychimp (02/26/15 10:51 PM)

Posts: 7298 | From: Hong Kong, New Territories | Member Since: 04/19/04 | IP: (203.218.160.51) | Report this post to a Moderator


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